cliffwalsh

That brings up an interesting thought. Is minor not a viable option at all?? The scoring was developed to balance out major and minor, right? I have only been around this for 10 years so I wasn't around at the beginning. What was the thinking when the scoring was developed?? Does it work today??

I think I'll give the arched mainspring a try. For the load, I do keep the gun up but maybe not high enough. I'll have to watch that.

I use them on all my match guns from the 617 to the 625. Also, the Hogue family does a lot to support the shooting sports. They are a great American company that makes many great products. The web addess is http://www.getgrip.com.

You should probably reread the last post.

This has been an interesting discussion and I'm glad to see the increased interest. There is one major problem here. Six shot major vs 8 shot minor will never be completely fair. As Rob said, the Classic has never been won by minor. I know it works in single stack with 8 vs 10 but that is a special set of circumstances. The match is 8 round neutral and limited to 24 round stages meaning both 8 and 10 have to make 2 reloads. Are their many stages that have 17 to 20 rounds where the 10 shots only have 1 load? Having never gone, I don't know but I would be surprised if there were, other than a standards with mandatory reloads. In USPSA, stages between 25 and 30 rounds would give 10 shooters one less load so it does not work as perfect under USPSA rules. The Classic is a special match and it is run under a special set of rules that makes it fair. Applying that to USPSA does not work. In SS, the advantage of 10 shooters in mitigated by the 8 round array rule and I'm sure is minimal. How many matches with top level competition have been won by minor shooter?? I would be curious to know that. In revolver, the advantage would be much greater and many of the extra reloads would be standing to make them worse. Rob has said we can make a special match that is 6 round neutral and the is great (like the IRC) but the rest of USPSA competition will not be fair. Even if the 8 round minor is 90% fair compared to 6 round major, it is 10% unfair. If something is a little unfair, it is in fact unfair. You can't be a little pregnant and so on. If it is unfair, how can the board pass it?? I hear a lot of you want to shoot your 8 shots in USPSA revolver division. We should be discussing adding a rule to allow any revolver into the division. Those that want revolver to be minor only, propose that. We talked about getting new shooters, I like adding a speedloader category. You might get some of the classic guys and there are many shooters who have a k or l frame (or colt or ruger) who would just need some speedloaders to give it a try. I think that is much more likey than a new guys buying a $1000 gun to try it.

That makes a lot of since. Not sure if that will work for me but worth a try.

I guess I'll them next, thanks for the tip

I thought that was OUR secret.

That's interesting. Do the guy who set up the AREA 2 match, do stages for the monthly match also?? There were a lot of 7 and 8 round arrays. Looking back, an 8 shooter would have been very hard to beat there. I guess the question is, is that typical of your club? It wouldn't take much to make the stages so there are enough options to make it pretty even.

I guess you don't get it. Production and L-10 are the divisions the 8 shots can be used right now at full capacity. If there really is a group who wants to shoot those guns in USPSA, show up at matches and shoot them. How does sitting home typing on your computer show there is a need for change.

There are more 627's for sure but the rules are set up so 6 and 8 compete on even ground. Comparing USPSA to ICORE is apples and oranges. Again, when ICORE wanted to bring in new shooters, they went with 6 shot guns and speedloaders. Why do you think that was? Is bringing in new shooters the goal here??

ICORE is all set up for 6 round guns. There are no more reloads with a 6 shooter or and 8 shooter unless the course is not setup according to the rules. The only advantage of the 8 shot is more misses without reloading. If the goal is bring new shooters out to local matches, do we really think that having to have a $1000 gun is the answer. If they do buy the gun, factory 38 special does not make minor so they have to reload or get ammo from someone who does. You bring up ICORE and the one division that is 6 gun only and that is how you get new shooters. Classic is designed to let shooters use the guns they most likely already own and all they need to do is get some speedloaders You can make chrono with factory ammo. How many 627's are really out there compared to L and k frames and the comparable colts and rugers? Which way is going to draw more new shooters?????

Going from my revo to single stack is not easy especially the reloads. Are there any habits we get from revo shooting that work against SS shooting and reloading. I am getting pretty good with not squeezing the trigger before I get to the target. Anything else???

Competitive is a relative term. Do you mean able to win the division at top level? No it will not unless something crazy happens. Do you mean that the same guy will always do better with a auto vs revo? Overall that is true because most people shoot autos more. I know for a fact that i would do better with the revo everytime and that is because I spend my time there. Of course Rob is going to do better with an auto, the number of rounds he has put through and auto is many times more than I will shoot in my life. Being competitive is a very subjective term. If you finish in the middle or bottom of the pack, does it matter if it was a revo or auto? Is either on competitive?

Is ICORE healthy?? Last I heard there was little if any growth.

I guess in NY 6 shot looks pretty good right now.

No, I'm saying that because Jerry wants this it will be considered. You can agree or disagree with him but this would never happen if Jerry was against it.

This whole thing restarted at the last nationals with Jerry M. Mike was there and if I do not state in correctly, please speak up. Jerry has been wanting to shoot minor for a while because of pain in hands. He knows with Matt catching up quickly that he cannot shoot minor and win. He is trying to make minor not just competitive but an advantage so he can continue to win. That is as simple as I can state it. That is the reason the change is being seriously considered. I am sorry to see that Jerry is slipping (trying to catch him all these years is one of the reasons I got into revo and I still think he is the best all around shooter ever) and it happens to us all. We ( I really mean me) get fatter, lose eyesight, and can't move as fast. That is life. Should we then try to change the rules so everyone has to come down to our level? My eyes are crap right now and I know many are going through the same thing. Should I be campaigning to allow dot sights revo so I can still be competitive and everyone else will have use one too or should i go shoot in open where the rules allow it?

That wasn't just for you Ed (didn't know it was you either). A lot of this discussion had to do with shooting minor and that major was too much. The rules as is accommodate that. In IDPA, you have no choice, run moons you shoot major or you get DQ'ed. In USPSA, the shooter has a choice. You lose points but you gain speed in minor. That is a part of the game just like planning a stage. I am going to shoot to my to my strengths. If I can't handle major then I better be accurate. Allowing 8 shots is one thing and I'm against that but would probably still shoot. Forcing minor goes against the basics of USPSA, DVC. By forcing 8 shot minor, we are just shooting ICORE. Why not use all this energy and effort as a platform to start more ICORE clubs and I'm sure USPSA will get some crossover.

There is not going to be an open revolver division, ever. If you mean an open revo category in open division, you can have a discussion.

Nobody says you have to shoot major every. If you want to shoot minor, do it. Wanting to make everyone shoot minor so you do not have to use the lower recoil to get better accuracy sounds pretty weak to me. (I'm using the word weak but I'm thinking something else) Our scoring is based on speed power and accuracy. If you drop one, you need to pick up the others. Sounds like you just want USPSA to be ICORE. If major hurts you, shoot minor you have the choice. There are guys we shoot open minor and limited minor and I don't hear them wanting to drag everyone else down to their level. again, the site is icore.org.

Well put. What I'm getting from the 8 shot folks is that revolver is too hard the way it is with major and reloads. Is that the goal, to make USPSA easier? Will that get more shooters? Lets have a rimfire division. There are plenty of people who shoot rimfire that have be excluded from USPSA not to mention bringing in the kids and lets face it, if its for the kids, it has to be a good idea.

It has already been stated that 6 major vs 8 minor will never be fair to the 6 shooter unless a special stand alone match is set up and even then there will be chances to gain advantage with the 8 shots. All other matches all year will be unfair. If you want to add 8 shooters, why does it have to me minor? Why not change the rule to any revo and let it go? UPSPA is speed power and accuracy. The point of major/minor is that if I lower my power, I must increase speed and accuracy. Why should I be forced to shoot minor to be competitive in your new revo division??

Here, at the home of the IRC, there were 15 revos and the icore match.

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