Sig320 X5 Legion trigger vs Grey Guns trigger

[George16]

Just corrected my previous post. I meant to say X5 Legion instead of regular X5. My apologies .

[TravisB_02]

The GG kit in the link he posted with the adjustable flat trigger is new. I ordered mine less than a month ago and that kit was not available. It also appears to have 2 new gold sear springs. 

[DirectDrive]

7 hours ago, TravisB_02 said:

The GG kit in the link he posted with the adjustable flat trigger is new. I ordered mine less than a month ago and that kit was not available. It also appears to have 2 new gold sear springs. 

I had two gold and two darker wire springs in my GG kit.

The darker spring seemed to be softer.

[perob]

The new intermediate competition sear springs and new snappy-reset trigger bar spring sounds very interesting. I got the previous competition kit and I would love to try the faster reset spring. I don't mind a slightly heavier trigger if the trade off is a nice quick and snappy reset. Wish they would sell the springs separately. 

[TravisB_02]

9 hours ago, DirectDrive said:

I had two gold and two darker wire springs in my GG kit.

The darker spring seemed to be softer.

Sorry if you said earlier but when did you order yours? I got the flat $129 competition kit about 1 month ago and it included 4 sear springs all of which appeared identical. I could email grayguns if I was overly concerned about it but it doesn't change anything for me. Also I still never got a reply to my last email 5 weeks ago. I'm really satisfied with the GG kit as is. I can split it much quicker than the factory legion and that's what I wanted. But the AC does looks like a nice part. 

[lfine]

Just got my X5 Legion back from The Sig Armorer. What a great job.  I made a before video and an after video. If you just want to see the short version of before and then an after go to this one: https://drive.google.com/open?id=15r2K9CL44HZOI-OByJL6lYvUPyaIe0l8 I'll try and post the longer ones later if anyone cares.  

Couldn't be more pleased. Great job, Mr. Burke! 

Edited February 21, 2020 by lfine
video url

[Mitchster]

I am considering sending my X5 legion to sig Armorer for a competition trigger job. I would like to lessen the take up and shorten the reset. Has anyone had any experience with the company or have another option to improve the trigger?

[lfine]

Well as you can see from my experience, the take up and creep is pretty much gone.  And reset is great so i'll give you a vote for TheSigArmorer.

[DirectDrive]

4 hours ago, TravisB_02 said:

Sorry if you said earlier but when did you order yours? I got the flat $129 competition kit about 1 month ago and it included 4 sear springs all of which appeared identical. I could email grayguns if I was overly concerned about it but it doesn't change anything for me. Also I still never got a reply to my last email 5 weeks ago. I'm really satisfied with the GG kit as is. I can split it much quicker than the factory legion and that's what I wanted. But the AC does looks like a nice part. 

My kit arrived about 2 weeks ago.

And,  I can tell you this...

Whenever communicating with Gray Guns, always check your junk email box.

I am usually in my Hotmail and GG correspondence almost always gets caught up in my junk email box.

 

Yes, I've been following the P320 AC trigger development since last year.

It sounds like it works as good as it looks.

The AC release date was delayed so I bought the Keres which has been working well for me.

Edited February 21, 2020 by DirectDrive

[Mig233]

12 hours ago, lfine said:

Just got my X5 Legion back from The Sig Armorer. What a great job.  I made a before video and an after video. If you just want to see the short version of before and then an after go to this one: https://drive.google.com/open?id=15r2K9CL44HZOI-OByJL6lYvUPyaIe0l8 I'll try and post the longer ones later if anyone cares.  

Couldn't be more pleased. Great job, Mr. Burke! 

Thank you for posting the before and after videos, they were very informative!  The take up and creep are both virtually eliminated. But the reset is still kinda long. 

[lfine]

I’ll try it out at the range and see what it’s like in a real-world situation and report back

[KurtD]

I've been reading this thread and other X-5 threads in Sig forums on the AC and Keres triggers with pre-travel and over-travel adjustments.  I understand the pre-travel in the 320 is primarily (includes?) the safety lever in the FCU pushing up against the safety lock in the striker assembly.  I suppose there is some margin there before the safety lock is fully disengaged, but at some point the safety lock is fully disengaged and the pistol is no longer drop safety and could run afoul of USPSA rules in Production and CO about internal safeties. What am I missing?

[DirectDrive]

2 hours ago, KurtD said:

I've been reading this thread and other X-5 threads in Sig forums on the AC and Keres triggers with pre-travel and over-travel adjustments.  I understand the pre-travel in the 320 is primarily (includes?) the safety lever in the FCU pushing up against the safety lock in the striker assembly.  I suppose there is some margin there before the safety lock is fully disengaged, but at some point the safety lock is fully disengaged and the pistol is no longer drop safety and could run afoul of USPSA rules in Production and CO about internal safeties. What am I missing?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it interferes with the internal safety at all.

They just take out that ugly, long pre-travel that the OEM trigger system has.

I just dry-fired mine a few minutes ago and it is truly the nicest striker-fired trigger that I ever pulled.

The Gray Guns sear kit was the key element, though....I could not get the creep eliminated with the OEM sear.

Edited February 21, 2020 by DirectDrive

[KurtD]

6 hours ago, DirectDrive said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it interferes with the internal safety at all.

They just take out that ugly, long pre-travel that the OEM trigger system has.

I just dry-fired mine a few minutes ago and it is truly the nicest striker-fired trigger that I ever pulled.

The Gray Guns sear kit was the key element, though....I could not get the creep eliminated with the OEM sear.

I have the GG sear and trigger in as well.  With the slide off, with non-adjustable GG flat trigger, as soon as I apply pressure to the trigger, the safety lever begins to move. It moves before the trigger bar engages the sear.  Not sure how much contact there is between the safety lever and the striker safety lock when the slide is on and in battery, but, again, there is probably some margin.  Tried to make a video but exceeds the attachment size here.     

[DirectDrive]

5 hours ago, KurtD said:

I have the GG sear and trigger in as well.  With the slide off, with non-adjustable GG flat trigger, as soon as I apply pressure to the trigger, the safety lever begins to move. It moves before the trigger bar engages the sear.  Not sure how much contact there is between the safety lever and the striker safety lock when the slide is on and in battery, but, again, there is probably some margin.  Tried to make a video but exceeds the attachment size here.     

Interesting.

I'll take a look next time I have a chance.

 

[perob]

2 hours ago, DirectDrive said:

Interesting.

I'll take a look next time I have a chance.

 

 

I have also observed this. As soon as you engage the GG non-adjustable flat trigger or Legion flat trigger, the safety lever begins to move upwards and does so for a tiny bit before the sear is starting to move as well.

 

I have tried to measure the amount you need to move the striker safety before the striker can move past the block. This seemed to measure around 1.2mm~ on my gun. 

I have also tried to see the contact points and what happens during pre-travel with the safety lever and striker safety. I did this assembling the gun without the barrel and guide rod so that I could see the contact points between safety lever and and the striker safety lever, and as far as I can tell with the GG trigger these two contact points nearly already seem to be touching. During pre-travel I noticed that they both started to engage nearly immediately on the very first little trigger pull. 
From my observation of the trigger assembly and how it engages the striker safety I would prefer to have some pre-travel and would not try to eliminate it completely. I am unsure if on my gun having a pre-travel shorter than 1.2mm would actually disengage the striker safety. 

 

I do not know if assembling without a barrel and recoil spring affects the distance between the safety lever and striker safety contact points. This is me purly trying to figure out how it works on my own and my findings and assumptions might be wrong. 
At least for now I am trying to have around 2mm pre-travel to be on the safe side, I don't mind that anyways and actually like having a little bit of take up. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by perob

[Michael303]

The way the pre travel is eliminated with a set screw in these triggers it's essentially pre pulling the trigger part way.  Since the safeties are disengaged as the trigger is pulled, going too far with the pre travel screw can absolutely make an unsafe firearm.  I'm coming from Glocks so I'm not too familiar with the P320 trigger but eliminating any pre travel beyond the initial slack would be a no go for me. Unless there's a ridiculous amount of initial slack to take up, which my stock Legion trigger doesn't have, there may not be a lot of value in a pre travel set screw.

[DirectDrive]

7 hours ago, perob said:

 

I have also observed this. As soon as you engage the GG non-adjustable flat trigger or Legion flat trigger, the safety lever begins to move upwards and does so for a tiny bit before the sear is starting to move as well.

 

I have tried to measure the amount you need to move the striker safety before the striker can move past the block. This seemed to measure around 1.2mm~ on my gun. 

I have also tried to see the contact points and what happens during pre-travel with the safety lever and striker safety. I did this assembling the gun without the barrel and guide rod so that I could see the contact points between safety lever and and the striker safety lever, and as far as I can tell with the GG trigger these two contact points nearly already seem to be touching. During pre-travel I noticed that they both started to engage nearly immediately on the very first little trigger pull. 
From my observation of the trigger assembly and how it engages the striker safety I would prefer to have some pre-travel and would not try to eliminate it completely. I am unsure if on my gun having a pre-travel shorter than 1.2mm would actually disengage the striker safety. 

 

I do not know if assembling without a barrel and recoil spring affects the distance between the safety lever and striker safety contact points. This is me purly trying to figure out how it works on my own and my findings and assumptions might be wrong. 
At least for now I am trying to have around 2mm pre-travel to be on the safe side, I don't mind that anyways and actually like having a little bit of take up. 

I would say that I have about 3mm of pre-travel dialed in.

Any shorter for me and I'm going to be doubling.

 

[zhunter]

Armory Craft clearly states 2mm pre-travel is needed

[DirectDrive]

2 minutes ago, zhunter said:

Armory Craft clearly states 2mm pre-travel is needed

Needed for what ?

 

[perob]

47 minutes ago, DirectDrive said:

Needed for what ?

 

Im pretty sure it's to prevent disengaging the striker safety or having started to disengage it. 

[DirectDrive]

33 minutes ago, perob said:

Im pretty sure it's to prevent disengaging the striker safety or having started to disengage it. 

Copy.

[KurtD]

13 hours ago, perob said:

 

I have also observed this. As soon as you engage the GG non-adjustable flat trigger or Legion flat trigger, the safety lever begins to move upwards and does so for a tiny bit before the sear is starting to move as well.

 

I have tried to measure the amount you need to move the striker safety before the striker can move past the block. This seemed to measure around 1.2mm~ on my gun. 

I have also tried to see the contact points and what happens during pre-travel with the safety lever and striker safety. I did this assembling the gun without the barrel and guide rod so that I could see the contact points between safety lever and and the striker safety lever, and as far as I can tell with the GG trigger these two contact points nearly already seem to be touching. During pre-travel I noticed that they both started to engage nearly immediately on the very first little trigger pull. 
From my observation of the trigger assembly and how it engages the striker safety I would prefer to have some pre-travel and would not try to eliminate it completely. I am unsure if on my gun having a pre-travel shorter than 1.2mm would actually disengage the striker safety. 

 

I do not know if assembling without a barrel and recoil spring affects the distance between the safety lever and striker safety contact points. This is me purly trying to figure out how it works on my own and my findings and assumptions might be wrong. 
At least for now I am trying to have around 2mm pre-travel to be on the safe side, I don't mind that anyways and actually like having a little bit of take up. 

we just need a Kuhnhausen-level-of-detail book on a 320.

[bsaks]

https://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-p320-x-5-pistols/349120-keres-dynamics-pro-adjust-trigger.html?amp=1

there's a similar thread on sigtalk regarding whether safety is compromised with the keres trigger

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[raz-0]

On 2/21/2020 at 5:08 PM, DirectDrive said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it interferes with the internal safety at all.

They just take out that ugly, long pre-travel that the OEM trigger system has.

I just dry-fired mine a few minutes ago and it is truly the nicest striker-fired trigger that I ever pulled.

The Gray Guns sear kit was the key element, though....I could not get the creep eliminated with the OEM sear.

I have the AC trigger. 

 

I have attempted to measure how much you can depress the drop safety in the striker before disengaging it. I then tried to reference it off of the slide rails and slide rail cuts. As near as I can tell almost everyone complaining about the 2 stage "creep" of the trigger is complaining about about the transition form just the load of the drop safety (i.e. stage 1) being disengaged and adding on the resistance of the sear being engaged. 

 

The people at gray guns seem to think you can't take out pre-travel without eliminating the drop safety. 

The people at armory craft think that if you need it to be maximally safe you need to not install the pre-travel adjustment screw. 

I can tell you that I tried to and believe I have taken out a little bit without disabling the safety, but  it's negligible. And that there is a really easy and objective way to tell what is too far.  and if you remove pre-travel enough to get to "ooh that's much nicer" without the gray guns springs and sear, you are bast that point. 

 

Now this is definitely the kind of thing that someone with a mill, spare slide, and the will to do a cutaway could come up with a definitive answer to. 

 

I can tell you that I have a couple spare strikers because I've had them break on other guns. Not a one of them needs the drop safety wedge(?) thing depressed fully to disengage like some have suggested. My best guess due from measuring relative positions of things, and I'm not 100% certain this is the threshold of safety, it may be less, is that if your pre-travel adjustment  raises the lever to be even with the bottom of the dinosaur head on the disconnector, you have likely disabled the drop safety. If you have raised the lever to the top of the slide rail on the chassis, you have definitely disabled it. 

 

I got the trigger in the very first batch. Nothing in it listed a safe amount of pre-travel. So if anyone has any pointers to where they do now, I'd be glad to see it.