2.1.8.5 and 9.9.3

[waktasz]

9.9.3 says moving targets have to be activated before the last shot and 2.1.8.5 says shoot em if you can see em.

 

How do these two work together? If there is a swinger that is somehow available at rest and you shoot it but never activate the movement do you get Mikes on it even though there are two hits on the paper?

 

 

[outerlimits]

2.1.8.5.1

[waktasz]

Doesn't answer the question.

 

[RJH]

15 minutes ago, waktasz said:

If there is a swinger that is somehow available at rest and you shoot it but never activate the movement do you get Mikes on it even though there are two hits on the paper?

 

 

 

Yes, assuming no level one exemption, shoot it when you see it yo, but activators gotta be activated, or you get some penalties, whether there are holes or not or

  you gets them mikes and them FTSAs

Edited July 12, 2019 by RJH

[bret]

1 minute ago, RJH said:

 

Yes, assuming no level one exemption, shoot it when you see it yo, but activators gotta be activated, or you get some penalties, whether there are holes or not or

  you gets them mikes and them FTSAs

Say a swinger is activated by a stomp pad, you shoot it ( 2 Alpha) and never activate it.

 

How would you score it?

[Lee Cabana]

As the rule is now written, it would be scored as two mikes and a failure to shoot at.

[bret]

1 minute ago, Lee Cabana said:

As the rule is now written, it would be scored as two mikes and a failure to shoot at.

Wrong,  it says you can shoot them if you can see them.

[waktasz]

1 minute ago, bret said:

Wrong,  it says you can shoot them if you can see them.

 

But 9.9.3 says you have to activate moving targets before the last shot...hence my question 

[bret]

Just now, waktasz said:

 

But 9.9.3 says you have to activate moving targets before the last shot...hence my question 

So where would 2 Mike's 1 ftsa come from?

 

If anything 1 procedural, but I don't know what procedural would apply. 

 

It wouldn't be for failing to follow WSB unless it was level 1 and says it has to be a activated prior to being shot at.

[HCH]

3 minutes ago, bret said:

Wrong,  it says you can shoot them if you can see them.

 

Do you actually read the rules, or just make stuff up as you go?

 

9.9.3 is pretty straight forward. If you don’t activate the mechanism before the last shot, you get 2 mike and one FTSA, regardless of when or if you shot the target. 

[HCH]

37 minutes ago, waktasz said:

 If there is a swinger that is somehow available at rest and you shoot it but never activate the movement do you get Mikes on it even though there are two hits on the paper?

 

 

 

Yes. And one FTSA. 

[bret]

1 minute ago, HCH said:

 

Do you actually read the rules, or just make stuff up as you go?

 

9.9.3 is pretty straight forward. If you don’t activate the mechanism before the last shot, you get 2 mike and one FTSA, regardless of when or if you shot the target. 

Yes, have you?

 

 

[bret]

2 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

Yes. And one FTSA. 

2.1.8.5 says they can be shot at anytime.

 

How can you give an FTSA when it has been shot at within the rules? 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 minute ago, bret said:

2.1.8.5 says they can be shot at anytime.

 

How can you give an FTSA when it has been shot at within the rules? 

 

Because 9.9.3 says "always". 

 

Pretty much ain't no exceptions to always  

[ChuckS]

For clarity, here is the rule:

 

9.9.3 Moving scoring targets will always incur failure to shoot at and miss penalties if a competitor fails to activate the mechanism which initiates the target movement before the last shot is fired in a course of fire. This includes no-shoot targets that must be activated when in front of scoring targets to expose them. Penalties are based on number of shots required for the moving scoring target or the scoring target(s) behind the no-shoot.

[bret]

Thanks

[pjb45]

“The rule book is your friend,” quote from Pat Miles. 

Thank Chuck for being level headed......

[Racinready300ex]

It does seem dumb that you would get two mikes and a failure to shoot at for a target you shot at and hit with the required number of rounds.

 

What is this IDPA?

[broadside72]

Not sure why the confusion. If you can see it then shoot it without activating it. Just be sure to activate it before your last shot. Two separate actions\rules.

[ChuckS]

11 minutes ago, pjb45 said:

Thank Chuck for being level headed......

I'm taking a screen shot of that 

 

I am pretty sure 9.9.3 was a reaction to a problem at a recent area match where the hidden target could be seen from somewhere and people were shooting the target (as is legal in > level 1 matches) and the strolling back to the stomp pad after the last shot. I think building the stage properly was the answer but the rule is here.

[RJH]

1 hour ago, bret said:

Say a swinger is activated by a stomp pad, you shoot it ( 2 Alpha) and never activate it.

 

How would you score it?

 

 

Looks to have been answered multiple times now, but yes, 2 mike 1 FTSA

[HCH]

17 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

It does seem dumb that you would get two mikes and a failure to shoot at for a target you shot at and hit with the required number of rounds.

 

What is this IDPA?

 

You don’t.. as long as it’s activated

[waktasz]

4 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

I'm taking a screen shot of that 

 

I am pretty sure 9.9.3 was a reaction to a problem at a recent area match where the hidden target could be seen from somewhere and people were shooting the target (as is legal in > level 1 matches) and the strolling back to the stomp pad after the last shot. I think building the stage properly was the answer but the rule is here.

 

There are a few scenarios I've seen where you'd do that. At area 7, three or four years ago you had to run outside the shooting area and pull a lever to activate a drop turner. There's no way it was worth it to do all that for a possible 10 points so everyone I saw shot the whole stage then walked all the way back to the start to pull the lever

 

[Ssanders224]

20 minutes ago, broadside72 said:

Not sure why the confusion. If you can see it then shoot it without activating it. Just be sure to activate it before your last shot. Two separate actions\rules.

 

Yea, It's pretty cut and dry as the rules are written. 

 

I'd have to put a little more thought into it, but at first glance, it does seem odd that you would retroactively take away (or not score) hits on a visible target due to not "completing" a stage. 

Ie, a shooter shoots a stage, engages and puts two hits on a swinger that is visible pre-activation, then breaks a firing pin and cannot shoot the steel to activate it. Two M and an FTSA, even though it was shot at. Rules are rules, and that's fine, but it does feel a bit odd. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Ssanders224

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, HCH said:

 

You don’t.. as long as it’s activated

 

Obviously, but if you don't activate it you get misses for shots that were hits, and a FTSA for a target you shot at.  Seems like silly IDPA rules to me.

 

If it were up to me I'd of just made it a PE for not activating. Well, really I would of just left it alone it wasn't broken to begin with.