TimBoettcher Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 It sounds like the case is flared too much and not keeping the bullet concentric. Most of the time when we load out the 9mm to 1.150"+ we cant rely on the case to straighten the bullet when seating or crimping. The less flare you have, the less likely the round will bulge and seat cockeyed. As far as crimp goes, don't! I measure the bullet (.355) and case thickness (.011") times 2, the case mouth should measure .377" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Plunk Testing: The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause: Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times. Remove and inspect the round: 1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long 2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp 3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case 4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit 5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 ^^^^ This 1000 times!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 34 minutes ago, TimBoettcher said: It sounds like the case is flared too much and not keeping the bullet concentric. Most of the time when we load out the 9mm to 1.150"+ we cant rely on the case to straighten the bullet when seating or crimping. The less flare you have, the less likely the round will bulge and seat cockeyed. As far as crimp goes, don't! I measure the bullet (.355) and case thickness (.011") times 2, the case mouth should measure .377" Thanks!!! I'll take a look at the flare amount and fiddle with that to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimBoettcher Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bench said: Thanks!!! I'll take a look at the flare amount and fiddle with that to see what happens. The less the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 34 minutes ago, noylj said: 4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit 5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster. Thanks!!! I"ve put so much marker on so many cartridges...on the bullet and crimped end...but never lower on the case(!!). I'll get to it once the coffee takes a hold. Then look into what's needed to correct anything that might show up as a result of issues you mention in #'s 4 & 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Bench said: Thanks!!! I"ve put so much marker on so many cartridges...on the bullet and crimped end...but never lower on the case(!!). I'll get to it once the coffee takes a hold. Then look into what's needed to correct anything that might show up as a result of issues you mention in #'s 4 & 5. Ok, here's what scratched off: What's a good next step for correction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigedp51 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Your die might not be reducing the case body diameter enough, or you have a tight chamber. I would try a Lee undersized die that reduces the case diameter .002 to .003 more than a standard die. The older cases become work hardened and spring back more after sizing. And range pickup brass fired in larger chambers can also cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigedp51 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Just now, bigedp51 said: Your die might not be reducing the case body diameter enough, or you have a tight chamber. I would try a Lee undersized die that reduces the case diameter .002 to .003 more than a standard die. The older cases become work hardened and spring back more after sizing. And range pickup brass fired in larger chambers can also cause problems with brass spring back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 45 minutes ago, bigedp51 said: Your die might not be reducing the case body diameter enough, or you have a tight chamber. I would try a Lee undersized die that reduces the case diameter .002 to .003 more than a standard die. The older cases become work hardened and spring back more after sizing. And range pickup brass fired in larger chambers can also cause problems. I checked by resizing a case only and the case goes in and out of the chamber the way it should...drops in and rotates freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I'd still try the Lee undersized die, cases should look a little more (wasp waisted) than your example appears to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Steve RA said: I'd still try the Lee undersized die, cases should look a little more (wasp waisted) than your example appears to. Thanks Steve, I'll give it a go when I'm set up with Lee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Does your sizing die kiss the shellplate? It should. Raise the ram and lower the sizing die until it touches the shellplate. Edited June 5, 2019 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Just now, 4n2t0 said: Does your sizing die kiss the shellplate? It should... Thanks, it does. That was checked yesterday when I assembled the reloader after cleaning all the accumulated schmutz. As I posted above, I can get a reduced resistance to the rotation with a shorter OAL. It's still there (softer) but better and closer to a full rotation. Off to the range soon. There's a steel match Friday but the Beretta isn't making the trip... Edited June 5, 2019 by Bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Always check your die settings with a full (cartridge cases) shell plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 6, 2019 Author Share Posted June 6, 2019 Just now, Steve RA said: Always check your die settings with a full (cartridge cases) shell plate. Just now, Steve RA said: Always check your die settings with a full (cartridge cases) shell plate. Thanks Steve RA, that's something I've not heard of before...good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpom Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 If the loaded cartridges enter and fall out of the case gauge without effort, would not worry about rotation, think they will enter and fall out of the barrel when firing. Just test fire before the match. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 6, 2019 Author Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, mpom said: If the loaded cartridges enter and fall out of the case gauge without effort, would not worry about rotation, think they will enter and fall out of the barrel when firing. Just test fire before the match. Mark Thanks, that's kind of where I'm headed next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 THANKS ALL for your replies! With all of the permutations of OAL and CRIMP there still was a bit of resistance to rotation even below safe OAL's so today I packed up and went out to the range with a variety of OAL's (safe standards) and CRIMPS and fired away ~200 rounds and no issues with going bang or especially KABOOM(!). I'M JUST NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT IT, GRIP REALLY, REALLY HARD, PULL THE TRIGGER...REPEAT... Thanks again to you all for chiming in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 before doing the plunk test one should clean the chamber to remove any residue from past firings. any buildup in the barrel might keep the ammo from dropping free. same for case gauges. even a little oil will keep them from dropping free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Sandbagger123 said: before doing the plunk test one should clean the chamber to remove any residue from past firings. any buildup in the barrel might keep the ammo from dropping free. same for case gauges. even a little oil will keep them from dropping free Thanks. That was one of the first things I checked...repeatedly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vmax606 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) From what I read, you have a Dillon Square Deal B press, if that is true then there is NO Lee undersized die for it. But do this, push on the underside of the #1 (sizing die) and see how much it moves up and down, if it moves too much, you can make a shim (look like a washer) out of the primer tray sleeve and put on top of the die to reduce the upward movement, and make the case go up further in the die. Also lubing the cases before sizing will help with the process and easier on your elbow, just have to do some cleaning of the completed rounds that's all. . Edited June 7, 2019 by Vmax606 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, Vmax606 said: But do this, push on the underside of the #1 (sizing die) and see how much it moves up and down, if it moves too much, you can make a shim (look like a washer) out of the primer tray sleeve and put on top of the die to reduce the upward movement, and make the case go up further in the die. Also lubing the cases before sizing will help with the process and easier on your elbow, just have to do some cleaning of the completed rounds that's all. . Good thought on the shim, I'll take a look. One Shot is part of the routine, a little cleanup following loading needed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 16 hours ago, Bench said: I went to the range with a variety of OAL's and CRIMPS ~200 rounds and no issues with going bang Great. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Great. Problem solved. LOL, it's always great to solve a problem...that isn't a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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