How would you tune a pistol for double taps?

[igolfat8]

Let’s say there are no power factor requirements to meet and you are shooting a stock (not open) pistol. How would you tune the pistol to shoot the flattest and fastest, tightest double taps? Obviously grip strength and trigger control are paramount skills for the person shooting the pistol but let’s focus our attention and discussion strictly on tuning the pistol and load. 

[rowdyb]

Solely w recoil springs 

[TeamCarverCustom]

Like rowdyb said, recoil springs. Also try a steel or tungsten guide rod, it helps by adding a little weight out front. Also load your own ammo, if you're looking for a flat load I would shoot a 147gr bullet and run it around 130 power factor. Some people do not like the way 147 gr bullets feel during recoil but a very flat load can be achieved with said bullet weight.

[Hi-Power Jack]

8 hours ago, igolfat8 said:

  no power factor    How would you tune the pistol to shoot the flattest and fastest, tightest double taps?  

 

Combination of The Lightest Load you can come up with - and light springs.

 

I have a 9mm load I like for my KelTec (but it's fun to shoot them in a full sized gun

also - especially for beginners) that is around PF 110.  You could probably get that

down to c. PF 100, and then find the optimum springs for that load.

 

Quiet, no recoil - lot of fun to shoot.     

[rowdyb]

Let me rephrase what I think you're saying. "How can I set up my pistol to take one sight picture but quickly pull the trigger twice and have the bullets be as near each other as possible?" Is that right?

 

Shoot doubles drill

Refine your grip

Balance your load to recoil spring

Get your timing down

Use slow motion video along with the holes in the target to guide your direction in changes

[Paul49]

Hire Bob Vogel for some private lessons:

 

 

 

[tdp88]

Grip harder.

[B_RAD]

I'm seeing a lot of talk about double taps here lately. 

 

I'd ask the OP what he means and wants when he says double tap. 

 

Not being sarcastic. 

 

What do you mean?

 

What is your goal?

[Amerflyer48]

There comes a tipping point/diminishing return on ammo too soft and the slide cycles slow enough you can watch the empty roll out onto your hand while reading the headstamp.

 Once you find that break point then the lightest spring that is reliable. 

 You are done tuning the gun,from there it’s all about the driving 

 for me it works out to a G34 with a 125 grain bullet at about a 130 PF with a 12 lbs recoil spring on a full length SS rod. 

 Anything below a 115 PF and I can feel the gun unlock and slide come back for example my S&W 52 wadcutter gun has a PF of 110 and I can watch the gun cycle, I bet I could “double tap” really tight for a fair distance but it would be such a slow double it wouldn’t be worth it, again a diminishing return. 

  There are a lot of balances beyond a 5 lbs recoil spring a 147 grain bullet and 6 flakes of titegroup. 

  I will ask much as B_RAD did for more information to add context to your question so we may better help you get to where you are wanting to go. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Amerflyer48

[fastlane604]

Tighten up the reset, if it is possible with your gun.  My CZ P-10 C with an HBI trigger has a much shorter reset than  my G34 Gen 5 with an Apex trigger and connector (which has a shorter reset than the stock Glock trigger and connector).

[Paul49]

Watch the Bob Vogel video then realize he is shooting someone else’s gun, Keanu Reeves’ gun, not his own. Seems to argue technique and grip exceed tune-up in importance as several others have also suggested here.

[igolfat8]

Recently I shot my first IDPA using my G34. I shoot a lot of falling steel, Steel Challenge and 3 gun but I’ve never shot fast double taps (hammers) on IDPA cardboard targets. I’m used to shooting fast but those are mostly controlled shots. BTW I took a private class from Bob at his home a couple years ago so my grip isn’t the issue. Most of my double taps were hole on hole or very close but occasionally some were all over the place. My load PF was 110-ish and my recoil spring is an 11. Looking back I wish I would have mentally noted if my wider groups were after moving to another barrier or was it within the stage slicing the pie? I’ll try to pay closer attention next time.

 

I just searched the archives and didn’t see much info on tuning the pistol for double taps so I thought I would post and see what others were doing to their pistol to improve accuracy for double taps (ie smaller groups). I realize the importance of grip, trigger and sight alignment so I was hoping to omit that from the responses. Thx for your input!

[Novagunner]

having a sight picture for each shot will provide greater consistency. You can adjust springs to get a bit to get a neutral return. 

 

Shoot video from the side to see what the gun is doing when slide is going forward and into battery. Lighten recoil spring if dipping. Heavier spring if it is returning high. 

 

Good video example.

 

[Ltoo]

Wow Vogel is awesome. I noticed his comment about not shooting faster than your sight picture and it makes me curious when the term "double taps" came back? In the early days of The Forum this term was strictly verbotten. The accepted terminology was "controlled pair.  Just a comment.

[kevin c]

Two shots with one sight picture was frowned upon, at least back in the day.

 

It maybe that I'm old fashioned, and unwilling to change, but I like having an adequate sight picture for each shot. That being said, there definitely are things to do with grip and with tuning the gun and load to make it easier to have two quick shots result in two close hits.

[kneelingatlas]

I've noticed as my splits have gotten faster, I see more during the two shots I take at each target.  It's hard to express the concept when you're not using the same terminology.  I too cringe when I hear the term "double tap" because the image comes to mind of yanking the trigger the second time with your eyes shut, but as I've focused on shot calling I do see the sights on the second shot, whether my eyes, brain, and hands work in concert fast enough to change anything before the shot breaks is another question.

 

One thing I do know is that at my current skill level I'm aware of a poor shot, but not enough to decide to send a make up shot before I've already transitioned off the target.

[Ltoo]

Nice awareness KA and well said. I can see what you are describing as if it was myself shooting.

[gdboytyler]

At least from Wikipedia, double taps = controlled pairs.  2 shots with 2 sight pictures.

I've read that hammers are 1 sight picture with 2 trigger pulls.

What I've gotten from Ben's Stoeger's doubles drills is to do hammers at 5 yards and double taps (controlled pairs) at 10 yards and beyond.  I try to only do hammers during practice.  Doing hammers in a match haven't always turned out so well.