Getting Better At Gaming Stages

[rtr]

I am really bad at figuring out the fastest way to shoot a stage, meaning the most efficient way to shoot all the targets. I usually just copy the more experienced shooters, and that usually works (I'm C soon to be B in open).

My question is how can one become better at looking at a stage and quickly figuring out the quickest way to move through the stage?

[eric nielsen]

Very good way:

Shoot a lot of matches, ask top shooters WHY they shot the stage the way they did, and did it turn out like they wanted. Ask them what they saw, what they felt - you won't know unless they tell you. Travel some & be the out-of-town guy at other clubs. Their stage designs & their top dog shooters may look a lot different than at your nearest club.

Pretty good way:

Look at match footage. There are video files on this forum for free but the really good stuff is on Lenny Magill's USPSA Nationals tapes, on Matt Burkett's DVD Vol. 4, and on Eric Grauffel's 2002 Season vhs tape. Wide shots, close shots, replays from multiple camera angles, stuff like that.

[JFlowers]

One of the things that I found helped me was asking the right questions of the local "top" shooters. Not just "how are you" going to shoot this stage, but "why are you" as well. Once they figured out what I was trying to get from them, they quickly began to explain why they shot a stage a certain way. SOmetimes I still shot it differently, but their explanations gave me the information I need to make better decisions. After a while, you start putting the pieces together and coming up with ways to shoot a stage that are better. But I still ask the same questions even when my choices are the same as theirs cause they are always looking at things slightly differently. Also, don't rely on just one person's analysis. Three people might come to the same conclusion in three different manners and you can learn something from them all.

Now after being out of the sport for half the year, its back to the learning for me again.

[MVZ]

IMO, try to find ways to eliminate extra or unneccesary movement and steps. also try to be ready to shoot sooner entering shooting positions, boxes. ports etc.

MVZ

[AikiDale]

Matt Burkett covered how to evaluate and shoot a stage in the class I attended and it made a world of difference. He covered how to shoot different types of stages in class then in the following match he shot each stage first then explained why before the rest of the squad shot. And at the risk swelling his ego I'll mention this was last years Area 5 match. Matt placed 4th and he was paying a whole lot more attention to his squad of students than his own match. Max, Brad and Chris would have had much better competition had Matt not been such a good mother hen.

If you have the chance take a class!

[old shooter]

One thing lately that I have tried to remember...get to the shootin'

If you are not shooting, you are just wasting time. Start with a plan on how you are going to shoot the stage. Do a walk thru and try to add up all of the non shooting time. See if there are any places where you could substitute shooting (shooting on the move) for just moving.

Mike

[Flexmoney]

All good advise.

I also like to come up with alternative ways to shoot the stage...other than what I am sure I will use. Explore all options.

[MVZ]

While its good to ask questions of the top shooters be cautious. As a C soon to be B shooter your skill level is not up to theirs and shooting a stage as they do can be disasterous ( been there done that ) .

MVZ

[Crusher]

EXPLODE on starts/out of positions , KNOW how fast you can decelerate into a position and make your first target aquisition and shot, KNOW what your transition times are for various arrays/distance, know your split times for varried distance of target arrays, AND all these times you have in your head MUST be repeatable.

Once you have all that stuff down you can normally figure out what is the fastest way YOU can shoot a stage (any stage) and obtain the maximum number of points available in the stage. Like MZV said the way a M/GM shoots a stage may not be the best way for a C/B shooter.

[j1b]

Even outside of asking top shooters, just listen to their conversations amongst each other. If you get a shot, that is worth the time alone.

An interesting component about stage analysis is that generally the big name shooters aren't exactly 100% sure the best way to shoot a specific stage. If you listen to them talk you'll hear the questions they ask each other and you'll gain a ton of insight into the way they are thinking. Truthfully the one thing you'll learn is how they approach risk versus reward. That is worth the price of entry alone.

My only note - don't think of it as "gaming" the stage. It has negative implications. When you approach a stage just think about the best way to perform in that stage. Don't game it, don't think about the trickest way to do it. Think about it from a performance standpoint.

You're thinking should be "this is the way to shoot this stage that will enable me to perform my best"

Just my $.02

J

[Nik Habicht]

Know your own abilities: Can you hit that partial at twenty yards or do you need to run 15 yards to shoot it from a different location? How fast can you run the 15 yards? Is there another compelling reason to do it, such as a bunch of targets that get easier? Are you better off running to all four or five positions, or can you eliminate some of them by being willing to take longer, harder shots? Can you shoot on the move ---- if so at what distance on what types of targets?

All of these things will factor into your plan......

[Flyin40]

I found the only way to shoot a stage successfully, without any extra movement etc..You have to know where EVERY single target is. In that 5mins you get you have to be able to burn that course of fire into your brain. I still have trouble with this but I'm alot better.

As far as gaming goes the more exposure you get the better you will get. Shoot with some expierenced guys and always ask "why".

3 things that helped me improve the most

1. SA stage analysis plan. You can download it from his website. I know for me

putting it on paper helps.

2. This one helped me the most. I know larger courses were one of my problem areas. Everytime I dryfire at the end of the session I would make a larger dryfire course throughout the house. It intially started with one course. I would rehearse it the practice it. I would place the targets in arrays that I might have some trouble on. I did this a few times the it hit me one night after a match that I have trouble remembering targets. If your trying to remember where they are this is taking time and your movements won't be effiecient. I would set up a course then give myself 5 mins to burn it in my head. I would rehease it, visualize it and the run the course. I would then set up another course with targets in different places to make sure I had to relearn the course. Again I would give myself 5mins to figure out how to shoot it then I would run the course. Sometimes I would run the course a couple of times but mostly I only allowed myself one run at it to try to duplicate match conditions. After a couple weeks the times at matches on my larger course dropped from 3 to 8 seconds by doing this. Courses that I shot in 15 secs I was shooting in 12, courses I shot in 30 secs I was shooting in 22 to 25 secs. Huge difference. I used full size targets, paper plates as well as reduced size targets to simulate longer shots.

3. Shooting with some top notch shooters. Learned alot by just watching.

Flyin40

[Jake Di Vita]

Flyin40,

Not a bad idea with the dry fire stages in the house....If I may make one suggestion.

Instead of running it after the 5 minutes....take your 5 minutes, burn it in, and then go do something else for a half hour....then come back and run it.

[Flyin40]

Flyin40,

Not a bad idea with the dry fire stages in the house....If I may make one suggestion.

Instead of running it after the 5 minutes....take your 5 minutes, burn it in, and then go do something else for a half hour....then come back and run it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll give it a try. When I come back to the course I'm assuming I should just run the course based off memory and not look at it again, Right???

Flyin40

[Jake Di Vita]

correct....or look at it once or whatever.

[vluc]

Know your own abilities:  Can you hit that partial at twenty yards or do you need to run 15 yards to shoot it from a different location?  How fast can you run the 15 yards?  Is there another compelling reason to do it, such as a bunch of targets that get easier?  Are you better off running to all four or five positions, or can you eliminate some of them by being willing to take longer, harder shots?  Can you shoot on the move ---- if so at what distance on what types of targets?

All of these things will factor into your plan......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perfect points, IMHO. Until you know what you can do or can't do, you just end up copying someone else.

Once you do know, though, experiment. be willing to tank a stage or a match to try a new technique. I once had issues with shooting far targets on the move. Tried it, found I now can, and it changed the way I read a stage.

[wide45]

Shoot with strangers.

The stranger, the better.

[gino_aki]

This will only help if you shoot in Limited 10, Production, Hawaii or Canada...try to group your targets to be engaged in terms of 8-10 shots, and try grouping them differently to see if you can save a reload or not be doing a standing reload if you miss. Many times I find that I will engage just one or two targets initially from the start and reload because it makes all the other moving reloads or "engagement groups" more logical/practical. If shooting on the move is called for I always try to be shooting at targets I'm moving towards rather than having to swing at laterally, even if it means blowing past an available target or targets while shooting one "group" and coming back for them while moving towards them. I also try to leave myself ample running space for a moving reload if possible as I sure seem to be able to outrun my reloads if I don't leave enough space.

This will probably attract some flaming for real outright gaming, but on your final group of targets, especially where steel is involved and misses are obvious, engage all your targets, but if you miss and shoot dry...don't reload, take the miss.

[Steve Anderson]

Your goal is to score the maximum amount of points in the least amount of time.

Truly understanding that principle will improve you natural gaming ability.

I like to break them down into sections...very very simply.

What do I shoot first?

What will I shoot next?

Where an I eliminate setups?

Where can I shoot on the move?

What is the last position of the stage? (if there is a lot of shooting than can be done at the end of the stage, this is a great place to get a good solid setup and clean house, primarily in the high cap divisions)

Then, inside of each section:

Which target can I see first, and is this the fastest one to shoot first? Often, we can save time by entering on an "easy" target instead of setting up for a more difficult shot.

Is there an appropriate target to leave on? Leaving on a difficult shot is challenging, as we should be trying to leave as we shoot instead of hanging around to see the result of the shot.

What activates any movers, and how much time is there to shoot other targets while a mover activates?

Angus Hobdell likes to say: (insert Angus' accent here) You've got a full second before ANYTHING happens" (on a steel activated mover.)

A second is a LOOOOONG time in our sport.

If you really watch a good shooter walk through a stage, you can learn a lot without even asking questions...

The sheet that flying40 refers to is available for free here:

Stage Analysis

SA

[Steve Moneypenny]

Once again... freaky obsessive compulsive stage break down helps us all... Good post steve!

[konkapot]

All excellent posts....everyone should be sure to read Flexmoney's post.....and then read it again.

At the club level in particular, there is too much "monkey see, monkey do" when it comes to how people shoot stages. Don't be afraid to do your own thing......you'll learn more, even if your way doesn't work out.

FY42385

[hopalong]

Konkapot,

I would not listen to anything Flex has to say!!!! HE does not know what he's doing!!!

He doesn't even shoot a limited gun in Limited so that just proves he doesn't have a clue.

I would be listening to Jake, and Steve but I'm hard of hearing myself and have to learn it all on my own.

Hopalong

[Flyin40]

Konkapot,

I would not listen to anything Flex has to say!!!! HE does not know what he's doing!!!

He doesn't even shoot a limited gun in Limited so that just proves he doesn't have a clue.

I would be listening to Jake, and Steve but I'm hard of hearing myself and have to learn it all on my own.

Hopalong

Flex has been it getting it from everywhere lately

Flyin40

[n2ipsc]

...there is too much "monkey see, monkey do" when it comes to how people shoot stages. Don't be afraid to do your own thing......you'll learn more, even if your way doesn't work out.

And never, ever (double-underscore this) change your plan at the last minute 'cause the hoser in front of you burned the stage down...

[ArnisAndyz]

In addition to watching how the Fast shooters shoot a stage, I also like to watch shooters of my own ability. Being fairly new, watching these really fast guys in real time is like listening to someone speak a different language, I can't totally relate to it yet. By watching the slower guys (like myself!) I like to see what mistakes they make or I think how they could have been faster. This usually stimulates the brain to think about my game strategy.

Something that has also helped alot is video footage. After the match my friend and I sit and watch and kind of critique each other on where we "could have" saved some time. Also, it lets me watch the fast shooters in slow motion and study thier moevments.