outerlimits Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 50 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said: Yup, already ordered before you posted the link. I also ran into this video looking for the Shotgun mag loader. Can you get 20 in the 19 round magazine doing the same thing? nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg5322 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said: Yup, already ordered before you posted the link. I also ran into this video looking for the Shotgun mag loader. Can you get 20 in the 19 round magazine doing the same thing? No, there's no fin on the baseplate retainer on the 19 round mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meeesterpaul Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: 19 round magazine Btw, the drum is sweet. Sold my (unwieldy) 19s after using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meeesterpaul Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 7 hours ago, robertg5322 said: Also, 9 round mags easily become 10 round mags by removing the fin on the baseplate retainer thing. Wish I could get 5s to become 6s as easily for NJ events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 26 minutes ago, meeesterpaul said: Btw, the drum is sweet. Sold my (unwieldy) 19s after using it. If you need more than one 19 round mag can you carry drums on a belt for competition purposes? I have given a drum consideration, and I may purchase 1 for the start of shotgun stages, but I cannot see how you would carry one on a belt. Which brand did you go with, and how does it run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg5322 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said: If you need more than one 19 round mag can you carry drums on a belt for competition purposes? I have given a drum consideration, and I may purchase 1 for the start of shotgun stages, but I cannot see how you would carry one on a belt. Which brand did you go with, and how does it run? You only need one for the start, reload with 19 or 10 sticks. Carrying that pig in a belt would be unwieldy. It is sweet though, mine works perfectly, and it's just the standard drum, not the uber-pricy Tooth and Nail Armory version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meeesterpaul Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: I have given a drum consideration, and I may purchase 1 for the start of shotgun stages, but I cannot see how you would carry one on a belt. Needing more than one drum? Yee Haw! that would be some stage! Unless the stage designer has a magfed shotgun you probably won't see that sort of advantage dropped in our laps. I've see 29 target stage which only took one reload. Hearing complaints from people with 30-50 round mags on their other guns was . . . amusing. I bring the drum to the line in an open top utility pouch. I hang smaller mags on a clip over the belt or in a bungee tensioned 308 mag holders (or a pocket) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) Couple of tricks to make the 19 rounder easier to load and more reliable. Remove the bolt hold open on the follower. Polish the edges of the follower and the metal on the mag top. I take the paint off until they drop free. I also spray a dry teflon in the mag every so often. The mag loader looks like it will work, but there is a technique to hand load the mags that works well. Also loosen up the center clamp slightly on the 19 rounder so the shells feed smoothly in & out. We run 2 VR80's using old style MKA mags and the RIA mags. Also Advance Tactical carries a Taylor Freelance +3 mag extension for the 10 round and 19 that seem to work OK with original springs & followers. Keep the springs stretched. Never used the drum, have seen a couple of shooters use it and it seems to work. I have an old 24 round T&N built MKA mag that works & feeds well and one of my buddies has put 2 RIA 19 rounds together for 28 rounds that also works. We also only use certain shells, mostly Win AA because they have a hard shell and don't dent. Here in Texas the shells will deform in the heat of the summer and will not feed. gerritm Edited January 11, 2022 by gerritm more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 22 minutes ago, gerritm said: gerritm Thanks for the info. I will be testing things out over the next couple of months. I cannot find any Win AA, but have some boxes from years ago I will keep for the hot months. I have mostly Federal and Herters where the casing is pretty soft. I intend to keep my shotgun shells in a cooler bag with ice packs (not ice cubs so there is not water) to prevent the shell casings from getting soft in the summer. I do intend to buy at least one drum mag. I saw a video on making the 28 round box mag, but man that thing is ginormous, and in my eyes I am not sure I will need that sort of round count. I have barely started playing with this thing, so I will see what needs work and what fixes need to be put into place to make the thing as reliable as possible. So far it runs like butter after getting back from Hayes Customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 30 minutes ago, gerritm said: Remove the bolt hold open on the follower. Polish the edges of the follower and the metal on the mag top. What does this do to make the operation smoother? 31 minutes ago, gerritm said: Also loosen up the center clamp slightly on the 19 rounder so the shells feed smoothly in & out. I heard about this from previous entries, and other forums. Are you just loosening these clamps until you get free operation or once you have free operation of the mag do you back off another half turn or so on the screws to make sure the will operate without hanging up. Also I assume you are using Loctite to make sure the screws to not back out any further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO3Gunner Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, gerritm said: Couple of tricks to make the 19 rounder easier to load and more reliable. Remove the bolt hold open on the follower. Polish the edges of the follower and the metal on the mag top. I take the paint off until they drop free. I also spray a dry teflon in the mag every so often. The mag loader looks like it will work, but there is a technique to hand load the mags that works well. Also loosen up the center clamp slightly on the 19 rounder so the shells feed smoothly in & out. We run 2 VR80's using old style MKA mags and the RIA mags. Also Advance Tactical carries a Taylor Freelance +3 mag extension for the 10 round and 19 that seem to work OK with original springs & followers. Keep the springs stretched. Never used the drum, have seen a couple of shooters use it and it seems to work. I have an old 24 round T&N built MKA mag that works & feeds well and one of my buddies has put 2 RIA 19 rounds together for 28 rounds that also works. We also only use certain shells, mostly Win AA because they have a hard shell and don't dent. Here in Texas the shells will deform in the heat of the summer and will not feed. gerritm This advice is gospel. I've been running a VR80 in 3-gun for the past 2+ years and in my experience, you will benefit by tuning every 19-round magazine per the above suggestions. I found it quite common for the followers to hang-up at the mag clamp, at least once a match, until I sanded down the follower edges and loosened it per gerritm's advice (above). No more "salt shaker" effects. You don't need the last round bolt hold open, at least not for competition. It is just one more thing to get stuck. The one additional step I took with my 19-rounders was to lightly file down the rear edge of the magazine tops, maybe a few thousands of an inch. Maybe polishing it as gerritm mentioned above achieves the same result, but it cured my double feed issues. That and other mods have my VR80s running 100%! Edited January 11, 2022 by CO3Gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) Loosen just enough when you load and the round goes past that joint you don't feel a lot of resistance. You will always feel some. The mags will move slightly at the joint. You can put Loctite on the screws, but I haven't because there seems to be enough pressure with the clamp against the nuts to hold them in place. Never had one loosen. Fiocchi rounds seem to have a better shell and also the Remington STS shells have a hard shell, but are on the expensive side. We use whatever for practice, but always either the Winn AA, STS, or Fiocchis in a match. Especially in the summer heat. We shoot the Dissident falling steel match with 30 plus rounds on some stages and I have shot 3-gun with 40 plus rounds, His 28 round big mag or my 24 rounder are not great if you shoot over a bench due to the length, but in the open are great. Considering the drum just for being shorter. How hard are they to load. The Magpul 223 drum is tough. Our first VR80 was built by someone and bought modified that my granddaughter shoots, but very similar to what Hayes does in the basic reliability package. could have been done by them. I did the modifications on mine and it runs great. Hers has the gas ports opened, T&N trigger, Taccom buffer & comp, along with a Magpul PRS stock. Mine is the same except I haven't opened the gas ports as it shoots 1145 AA and cheapie Winchester fine. She runs Fiocchi low recoil slugs dead on and mine likes the JM slugs medium recoil 1300 fps. Yes, I did file down the mag and smooth/polish all edges. gerritm Edited January 11, 2022 by gerritm moew info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, CO3Gunner said: No more "salt shaker" effects What do you mean by this? 5 hours ago, gerritm said: Polish the edges of the follower and the metal on the mag top Sanding I assume, are you using something after sanding for "polishing"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKJD Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: What do you mean by this? Sanding I assume, are you using something after sanding for "polishing"? Follower sticks in mag body and rounds above it shake around like salt in a shaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKJD Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 After my experience with the MKA 1919 Match I swore I’d never buy another gun made in Turkey. I’ve been following this thread since it started to see what the long term durability would be of the VR-80 and finally took the plunge and bought one. Everything that was supposed to be included was in the box so that was a good start. Stripped it down and cleaned and oiled. The design definitely appears to be a big improvement over the 1919. Drilled the gas ports with a #33 bit and replaced the stock. Broke it in starting with some 3 inch shells progressively worked my way down to 3 dram Winchester AA and Federal bulk pack. After 150 rounds it shot Federal Top Gun 1145 fps without a problem. Waiting on my order from Advanced Tactical to finish it up and plan on sending my barrel to Triangle Shooting Sports to get the barrel ported. Trigger was 6 1/4 lbs according to my RCBS gauge. The safety is terrible, way too small. Overall very pleased with the gun so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 15 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: What do you mean by this? Sanding I assume, are you using something after sanding for "polishing"? I took a dremel (I know bad) with a fine SS brush to all of the edges of the mag top edges inside & out. Same with all the edges and any plastic slag on the follower after removing the bolt hold open tab. Then a fine sanding disc on the part of the mag paint that goes in the well until it drops free. Some when new drop easy others have a build up of paint. Again I also spray a dry teflon in the mag & follower every once in awhile if I take it apart to clean if dropped in sand. Sand/dust/dirt and the mags don't mix. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 12 hours ago, AKJD said: After my experience with the MKA 1919 Match I swore I’d never buy another gun made in Turkey. I’ve been following this thread since it started to see what the long term durability would be of the VR-80 and finally took the plunge and bought one. Everything that was supposed to be included was in the box so that was a good start. Stripped it down and cleaned and oiled. The design definitely appears to be a big improvement over the 1919. Drilled the gas ports with a #33 bit and replaced the stock. Broke it in starting with some 3 inch shells progressively worked my way down to 3 dram Winchester AA and Federal bulk pack. After 150 rounds it shot Federal Top Gun 1145 fps without a problem. Waiting on my order from Advanced Tactical to finish it up and plan on sending my barrel to Triangle Shooting Sports to get the barrel ported. Trigger was 6 1/4 lbs according to my RCBS gauge. The safety is terrible, way too small. Overall very pleased with the gun so far. I ran a T&N built MKA1919 for many years with thousands of rounds before changing to the VR80 recently. Mine ran as close to 100% over the years with a couple of minor broken parts. Very happy with it and still have it. Might be for sale shortly. I have never measured what her VR80 gas ports were opened to, but have found that any rounds with 1350fps or above over run the bolt and cause failures. Turns into a single shot. Tried some 1350fps #6 on a spinner and had FTE. I Have shot everything from 1145 to 1300fps with no problems in hers and mine so I have not done anything to the ports on mine, yet. She has the T&N flat trigger and I put the same in mine. Right around 4# with no creep very nice. Thought about the barrel porting, but pretty happy with the Taccom comp on both. gerritm I broke mine in with a variety of shells and worked down to 1145 AA & Federal without the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKJD Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 20 minutes ago, gerritm said: I ran a T&N built MKA1919 for many years with thousands of rounds before changing to the VR80 recently. Mine ran as close to 100% over the years with a couple of minor broken parts. Very happy with it and still have it. Might be for sale shortly. I have never measured what her VR80 gas ports were opened to, but have found that any rounds with 1350fps or above over run the bolt and cause failures. Turns into a single shot. Tried some 1350fps #6 on a spinner and had FTE. I Have shot everything from 1145 to 1300fps with no problems in hers and mine so I have not done anything to the ports on mine, yet. She has the T&N flat trigger and I put the same in mine. Right around 4# with no creep very nice. Thought about the barrel porting, but pretty happy with the Taccom comp on both. gerritm I broke mine in with a variety of shells and worked down to 1145 AA & Federal without the I don't want to turn this into a 1919 thread but mine was a T&N also, I'm happy for you that yours ran but mine was junk and I know I'm not the only one with that experience. I've been shooting a VEPR for the last few years and as much I I like it I want an AR pattern gun that works. I had about 5 malfunctions in the first 25 rounds with the VR-80. Since then it has run everything from 3 inch magnums to 1145, Remington, Federal, Winchester, Estate, bulk pack, white box, good stuff or cheap stuff it doesn't seem to care. This was all with the 5 round mags. Hopefully it works as well with the high cap mags when I get them from Advanced Tactical. I'm going to work with the trigger that's in it and see if I can clean it up a little. If I replace it will be with the Elftmann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Guess I got a good one. Be careful on the Elfman trigger. Not sure if they have changed it but I know at least 2 guys who installed it and had light strikes and sent it back. These were early ones last year. Might have improved or changed since then. gerrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, gerritm said: I Have shot everything from 1145 to 1300fps with no problems in hers and mine so I have not done anything to the ports on mine, yet. I have some rather hot slugs. The box indicates over 1600 fps I believe. Are these going to be an issue? Also how true were the slugs shootings as far as point of aim versus point of impact with the VR80? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said: I have some rather hot slugs. The box indicates over 1600 fps I believe. Are these going to be an issue? Also how true were the slugs shootings as far as point of aim versus point of impact with the VR80? Not having drilled my ports I shot some hot 1500 plus fps slugs when testing & zeroing and they ran fine in mine. I didn't like the recoil so I tried the JM Fiocchi 1300fps slugs and like them better. Zeroed at 50 yards POA with Mod choke. Tested to 100 and they were about 4-6" low, but dead on. I believe Xtreme now has some 1300fps slugs in stock. I have the low FPS. Note I have the low gas piston installed in both. The hot slugs would not run in my granddaughters with drilled ports. Hers will run the lower recoil 1300 & 1150 Fiocchis and the 1150 shoots POA at 50 yards where we zeroed. We have shot hers out to 80/100 yards in a match to POA with a drop @ 100. gerritm Edited January 12, 2022 by gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, gerritm said: gerritm Thank you for all of the info. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg5322 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) My FDE VR80 worked with Herters 1050 fps shells right out of the box. Also has a nice, 3.5 lb trigger with no grittiness. Not crazy about the color (it was all that was available when I found it), or the long handguard, but I'll take functional and ugly over pretty, but with issues. Only thing I've done to it is change buttstock to collapsible and added an AR pistol grip. Edited January 12, 2022 by robertg5322 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO3Gunner Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 17 hours ago, AKJD said: Follower sticks in mag body and rounds above it shake around like salt in a shaker. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO3Gunner Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, gerritm said: Guess I got a good one. Be careful on the Elfman trigger. Not sure if they have changed it but I know at least 2 guys who installed it and had light strikes and sent it back. These were early ones last year. Might have improved or changed since then. gerrit Me and a few other 3-gunners had the same problem initially with the Elftmann trigger. The Elf hammer springs are fairly "wide" for lack of a better term, meaning the coils are larger (or not spun as tight) as the typical AR hammer spring or the T&N trigger. As a result, the part of the spring that coils near the forward end of the lower receiver tends to bend inwards just slightly, causing some binding when the hammer is released. This binding, even a little, can reduce the hammer force enough to to cause the occasional (or not so occasional) light primer strike. To test it, first remove the upper receiver. Then, with the hammer cocked, hold it back with your thumb while you pull the trigger. Once released, use your thumb to slowly guide the hammer forward and backward. If you feel any binding, even a slight amount, it means the trigger springs on either side are not completely flush with the edges of the receiver. The fix is to remove some of the material in the front corners of the front of the lower receiver to give the springs a flat surface to lie on. I hesitate to use the word "corners" because they are not at right angles, but you get the drift. I used a Dremel tool (I know, I know) to better "round out" the front bevels of the lower receiver (both right and left) to increase the flat surface area on both sides for the hammer springs to rest on. Now, it runs 100%. FWIW, I have been running the T&N trigger on another VR80 for years and it has been 100% reliable, but I prefer the reset of the Elf. Edited January 12, 2022 by CO3Gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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