PCC: Bought vs Built

[war_material]

Hello everyone, I got the PCC bug and am going to be running PCC almost exclusively.  I built a PCC with the following mods:

 

Nodak Arms glock  lower(Local shop in my town)

CMMG Upper

CMC with an extended and heat-treated hammer (Still going strong 4k+ rounds)

CMMG Bolt

Taccom 3 stage buffer system

16" Faxon Barrel

Ace Skeleton Stock w/ Spikes buffer spacer

Taccom Carbon fiber Handguard

Magpul Pistol Grip

C-More Railway 2 or 4 MOA (I need to check)

 

It took a while to figure out how to get it running 100% but here are the issues I had to troubleshoot:

 

Nosediving when racking into chamber (Fixed by using only original Glock mags.  Still happens if they are not in the correct angle)

Magazines not free-falling (Flared out Magwell)

CMC Trigger doubling (Sent to CMC, said the disconnecter wore down.  They replaced and said it shouldn't happen again)

Firing Pin Broke (Of course, this is a common thing.  New Wilson Tool-Grade is going strong)

 

 

I have been using this in the past 3 local matches I played in and it has been 100% while pulling off a GM classifier and a match win.  Also being top 3 in the other 2 local matches.  I am planning to buy another PCC and use them in rotation.  I am looking at the JP GMR-15 and have it built already.  I am satisfied with all of the reviews and I was wondering about what some opinions were on here about if I should buy the GMR or build another one similar to the one I have now.  Please feel free to share your experiences!  Thanks in advance!  

[sandrooney]

I really like my GMR-15. Never had a malfunction other than the infamous fire pin break and even then it did not malfunction. I found it while cleaning the bolt. 

[Startingover]

Get a Jones Arms Kronos 

Or at least get the upper/lower from them and build another.

 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you like most of the parts on the JP then I would say it is a good choice. If you like building then I would build one the way you want. Alot of the problems I am seeing are with the angle of the magazines in the lower if using Glock magazines. I am having great success using the Quarter Circle 10 lowers. They just seem to have the angle correct and make building a PCC easier. I am not sponsored by QC10 or JP but do like their products. Thanks, Eric

[L9X25]

What features do you like and value the most?   Can you get those exact features in a "store bought" PCC at a comparable price to building?

 

I purchased a JP and was very happy.  Soon after getting exposure to several other guns, I realized that the JP was heavier than what was optimal for me to compete in USPSA.  

I had the option of changing out parts on my JP or building an upper to replace the heavy parts.  Since the JP had always run flawless, without a single jam, I chose to leave it alone and build an alternate upper for my JP lower.  That accomplished exactly what I wanted to do.  

 

Eventually, I ended up building another lower, so that I could put the JP back together and have a complete spare, and now have two complete guns.  

 

Knowing what I know now, I would build exactly what I want from parts.  Before I knew exactly what I wanted, a factory built gun was a better choice. 

 

 

[dkamps]

I used to build everything.. now I truly appreciate a properly built and tuned product from a reputable manufacturer.

Cons: Costs more, hard to find quality mfg's these days, might have to change a part or two

pros: resell, its a system, warranty

 

Either way, these days you cant go wrong. I just never seem to build an AR (PCC or otherwise) that is better than the brand I always go back to. 

[Roy T]

I currently run the JP15 and love it shoots everything I put in it and the mag angle that seems to give some problems has never been an issue. No broken parts to date. I have been looking for someone who has the complete gun from MBX so far no news. I have friends who tinker L9X25 and Les are two of the rabbit hole guys I know so I listen to them when they speak. I am not as prone to go down the hole anymore so I find a quality piece and go with it since things like weight don' t seem to be an issue with me. Price is a consideration but when I look at all the parts lying around in my shed some of my simple builds have cost as much as a complete unit with less frustration. But the PCC thing has come a long way in a relatively short time so a build may be the way to go if you enjoy tinkering since some of the best tinkerers in the business hang out here you will have some great resources to draw on (or misery to share in) so either way remember the firearms industry needs both factions and my kids don't need that big of an inheritance anyway 

[war_material]

1 hour ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: If you like most of the parts on the JP then I would say it is a good choice. If you like building then I would build one the way you want. Alot of the problems I am seeing are with the angle of the magazines in the lower if using Glock magazines. I am having great success using the Quarter Circle 10 lowers. They just seem to have the angle correct and make building a PCC easier. I am not sponsored by QC10 or JP but do like their products. Thanks, Eric

THank you for sharing this info!  I was wondering why any aftermarket "Glock" magazines do not work for me and this must be the culprit.  So as said before, when the angle is not right, the rounds tend to nosedive.  I have had good luck in matches but in practice it has happened a few times.  I am leaning closer to just getting the QC10 lower and building from there with JP parts and taccom parts as well.  

 

The features I love about mine are simply the reliability and the weight.  I haven't weighed mine but it seems really light to me.  Also, the CMC modified trigger has been amazing but there is always a thought in the back of my mind about when it will fail (start doubling/bursting again).  I think that if I keep this as a backup/rotation platform and build the most reliable, light, and nicest trigger PCC, I will be able to move forward without any worries about my equipment.  So far, the JP GMR-15 seems like it is the way to go to move forward but from reading the build responses from you more experienced PCC shooters, starting with a QC10 and working my way to a nice rig would be a good way to go too.

 

I will definitely keep my build list handy as well as the JP GMR15 quote and try to make up my mind on where to spend my money.  What I truly want is a platform that I do not have to second guess in terms of reliability so that i can push as hard as I can in other areas of performance.  

[goldfish]

If you are satisfied and your first one works 100%. Why change to another? 

My primary and secondary PCC are identical. I can grab either one and they both feel and weight the same.  Very close to shooting the same.  I just like to standardize my spare parts.

[war_material]

just an FYI, my build list is as follows:

 

JP Barrel 16", JP Bolt and 3 port Comp

QC10 upper and lower reciever (with QC10 ineternals)

Taccom adjustable buffer

spare Handguard & buffer tube/stock.

 

= about $1,500

 

JP Built rifle = $1700+

Edited May 23, 2018 by war_material
Dollar Sign

[L9X25]

1 minute ago, war_material said:

just an FYI, my build list is as follows:

 

JP Barrel 16" and 3 port Comp

QC10 upper and lower reciever (with QC10 ineternals)

Taccom adjustable buffer

spare Handguard & buffer/stock.

 

= about %1,500

 

JP Built rifle = $1700+

But the JP rifle has a match trigger and the SCS buffer already in there.  Those two items are the $200 you are saving.

[JohnnyD]

I didn't spend JP level money but I went with a prebuilt upper and a prebuilt lower for simplicity sakes and compatibility.

 

Taccom ULW

 

PSA Billet Glock Lower (upgraded trigger to Hyperfire 24 3G).

 

I have had good luck with both of them through the first 1000 rounds minus a broken firing pin which Taccom quickly replaced.  Using both 21 and 17 round PMAGS as well as a Glock Mag with MBX Mini Extension.

Edited May 23, 2018 by JohnnyD

[RaylanGivens]

Are those of you building your own PCC building full length rifles?

 

Wondering why no one seems to mention going the SBR route... 

[war_material]

6 hours ago, goldfish said:

If you are satisfied and your first one works 100%. Why change to another? 

My primary and secondary PCC are identical. I can grab either one and they both feel and weight the same.  Very close to shooting the same.  I just like to standardize my spare parts.

 

Although I am satisfied with my current PCC, I still have those doubts in my mind about 2 particular issues:

 

1. The modified CMC trigger disconnector wearing out again eventually 

2. The magazine angle sometimes is not right and the first round nosediving when I rack the bolt.

 

So I am highly considering getting the JP for it's reliability and just switching out the stock and hand guard from my current setup to shave weight and for familiarity/comfort.  Then my current frankenstein PCC will be my backup/rotational gun.  I do like the concept of having a backup as similar as possible and so I will make sure they have the same sights as well.  They may not be identical but pretty close.  The triggers, handguard, and stocks may be different but I will be able to get over those in a pinch fairly quickly i believe.  And I am looking forward to having that piece of mind of reliability.

 

1 hour ago, RaylanGivens said:

Are those of you building your own PCC building full length rifles?

 

Wondering why no one seems to mention going the SBR route... 

From what I have read, the SBR route is just a little different in manipulating through stages and also I do not want to deal with the ATF stuff. It took long enough for me t o get a suppressor and I am not interested in doing that again.  I also like the fact that I can load a very light charge and still go well past minor while keeping the recoil/dot movement very soft.

[war_material]

6 hours ago, L9X25 said:

But the JP rifle has a match trigger and the SCS buffer already in there.  Those two items are the $200 you are saving.

Yes Sir that is another part of the JP that is pushing me towards it.  I never had experience with the SCS buffer but I heard good things and am willing to give it a shot.  I believe it should be just as good as the taccom 3 stage buffer that I currently use and fell in love with.

[2MoreChains]

I had problems with my built-from-parts AR9 until I switched to the JP bolt and SCS buffer/spring.  Since then, it’s run 100%.  

[war_material]

1 hour ago, 2MoreChains said:

I had problems with my built-from-parts AR9 until I switched to the JP bolt and SCS buffer/spring.  Since then, it’s run 100%.  

Is the JP bolt sensitive to the magazine angle?  I mean does it have to be completely perfect for it to chamber a round or does it allow for a little leeway? Sorry it's a silly question, but I am running into this issue from time to time.

[Old3GNR]

I have a JP GMR-13 and it has had no issues.  Weight doesn't slow me down, old age may be a factor.  I've been modding AR-15s for 20 years but don't think I would build a PCC.

[BigBamBoo]

I started with a JP GMR-13. Ran great.

 

Built three other PCC’s using JP, Taccom, HyperFire, etc., parts and all three run like tops. Never had to “tune” any of them to get them to run.

 

As a side note, I prefer my Colt pattern rig over my Glock rigs. It just runs a bit “smoother”. Others have mentioned noticing that the Colt rigs seem to run a bit different then the Glock rigs.

 

Whatever route you go you will have a great time shooting PCC.

[war_material]

Well after much deliberation I decided I will build my new rig with the following:

 

QC10 Pistol MUR Upper and Glock lower

Hyperfire 24C

JP 16" Barrel & Comp, Bolt and SCS

 

C-More 4MOA Railway

 

Total Build Cost=                         1753

Total GMR15 Cost (No Dot)=     1700 

 

Transfer my ACE Stock and Taccom Carbon Handguard over to the new one and put a spare magpul stock & UTG handguard on the backup.  Looks like this would be an effective and reliable rig to move forward.  Any thoughts or experiences on the build?

 

 

 

[L9X25]

I watched a video where Jones Arms explained that they modified the magazine location and angle to improve the feeding of their Glock magazine lowers.  I thought that was the greatest idea ever.  I pulled my JP GMR out of the safe and checked to see what the magazine angle looked like and it was just as they described theirs to be.  With the 115 FMJ bullets that I was shooting at the time, the projectile was pointed directly into the chamber of the barrel and was just barely outside of the chamber.  Practically any movement forward and the point of the projectile would be technically in the chamber. That lower has never mis-fed with ramped or unramped barrels.   

 

The point of this post is to say that some lowers have proper/improved geometry and some do not.  I can say that the JP and NFA both have improved geometry, and I am told that the QC10 also has the improved geometry.  Picking any one of these 3 lowers should give you similar feeding characteristics.  This is not a "one brand that has it right and everyone else is wrong" type of thing.  Lots of people have brand loyalty, but I think that it is just that.  I am pretty loyal to JP, but currently shoot an NFA with a JP trigger.   YMMV.

 

 

[war_material]

58 minutes ago, L9X25 said:

I watched a video where Jones Arms explained that they modified the magazine location and angle to improve the feeding of their Glock magazine lowers.  I thought that was the greatest idea ever.  I pulled my JP GMR out of the safe and checked to see what the magazine angle looked like and it was just as they described theirs to be.  With the 115 FMJ bullets that I was shooting at the time, the projectile was pointed directly into the chamber of the barrel and was just barely outside of the chamber.  Practically any movement forward and the point of the projectile would be technically in the chamber. That lower has never mis-fed with ramped or unramped barrels.   

  

The point of this post is to say that some lowers have proper/improved geometry and some do not.  I can say that the JP and NFA both have improved geometry, and I am told that the QC10 also has the improved geometry.  Picking any one of these 3 lowers should give you similar feeding characteristics.  This is not a "one brand that has it right and everyone else is wrong" type of thing.  Lots of people have brand loyalty, but I think that it is just that.  I am pretty loyal to JP, but currently shoot an NFA with a JP trigger.   YMMV.

 

 

Excellent explanation!  I am looking at my current lower and wel, not so much on the angle part.  Which is the cause of my occasional nosediving.  I believe that going with my proposed build will ultimately be the piece of mind I need to move forward with confidence.  

 

Thank you all for the replies!  I will definitely let you know how it goes.

[1911luvr]

Well after much deliberation I decided I will build my new rig with the following:
 
QC10 Pistol MUR Upper and Glock lower
Hyperfire 24C
JP 16" Barrel & Comp, Bolt and SCS
 
C-More 4MOA Railway
 
Total Build Cost=                         1753
Total GMR15 Cost (No Dot)=     1700 
 
Transfer my ACE Stock and Taccom Carbon Handguard over to the new one and put a spare magpul stock & UTG handguard on the backup.  Looks like this would be an effective and reliable rig to move forward.  Any thoughts or experiences on the build?

The JP barrel is heavy! If I went with that barrel I would turn it down on a lathe to save weight. I personally have gone away from full length barrels for Steel Challenge and USPSA, and only use a long barrel for PCC specific matches with targets at distances longer than 50 yards. The Taccom ULW barrel gives me faster transitions and is dead nuts accurate at my sight-in distance of 17 yards. While doing some load development I found my SC load delivered a 5-shot group that was so tight I thought I completely missed the target with the next 4 shots. All 5 rounds went into a round hole just under .45” which means the group was actually .1”! I highly recommend the Taccom ULW barrels for action pistol PCC class matches!


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[MemphisMechanic]

@war_material I would definitely second the recommendation for a lighter barrel than the JP. Either KAW valley or MBX for a lightweight full-length if you’re looking to go that route, preferably set up for a 14.5” pin & weld. The taccom barrel also looks like a good option, but I haven’t seen one in person.

 

QC10 lowers definitely result in really reliably-feeding guns from what I’ve seen locally with the guy running a Glock lower. I have a QC10 colt lower under a CMMG Guard upper and I’m really happy with how it presents the mags, too.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[war_material]

I was looking at the taccom barrels as well and they do look good as far as the weight!  I think I will go with it.  They are 5.5" with a pinned shroud?  So you just load your normal production loads for it?  Also, you dont need to have a comp since it is an aluminum tube for the most part, will this be too quiet for the timer?