Red Dot Slide Milling

[OPENB]

There's also a wide variability in how high off the top of the slide the dot is based on which optic you choose. My old style Deltapoint is significantly smaller than the Pro, & the Viper appears in between both. I think the Pro is the tallest of the commonly used dots, based on pics. 

[PatriotDefense]

19 hours ago, OPENB said:

There's also a wide variability in how high off the top of the slide the dot is based on which optic you choose. My old style Deltapoint is significantly smaller than the Pro, & the Viper appears in between both. I think the Pro is the tallest of the commonly used dots, based on pics. 

The pro is also to wide to add bosses on the slide that capture the optic, so we have to mill the slide super tight in order to keep it sandwiched in there......

[shabodah]

Is there any room to move the viper forward for at glock style suppressor height rear sight?

[Dazhi]

On 1/17/2018 at 3:10 PM, johnbu said:

Weight. Gun, optic, PD plastic palmswell grips and 140mm mag 43.5-43.6oz (it couldn't make up it's mind) . So it lost about 1.2oz between the cut and getting rid of the dovetail. Nice, now there is room to use different grips... just in time for the precision CNC milled ones from Patriot Defense to come out!

 

 

Did you use plastic guide rod or other plastic parts to make 43.5oz, besides the grips?

 

[johnbu]

23 hours ago, Dazhi said:

 

Did you use plastic guide rod or other plastic parts to make 43.5oz, besides the grips?

 

 

Yes.  I use the plastic CZ guiderod or the cone fit depending on which grips are on it.  Henning grips with the plastic guiderod and Taylor Freelance extension is 44.6oz.  With the PD grips and cone fit the weight is about the same.  The balance is slightly different empty, but feels the same when loaded.

[johnbu]

Red dot change....

 

Slide milled for sig Romeo1 in the new 6MOA.

 

 

[SCTaylor]

Ooooh I don't like you John!  So it makes weight with the standard slide & only the red dot milling? Aside from the post noted above.

[johnbu]

1 hour ago, SCTaylor said:

Ooooh I don't like you John!  So it makes weight with the standard slide & only the red dot milling? Aside from the post noted above.

 

Yeah,  it makes weight.  I'll get  a picture of the scale.  The R1 is about the same or a little  lighter than the Viper. 

 

I'm also in the process of getting the "Viper" cut slide converted to the "Venom".  Vortex has swapped my two Vipers for Venoms.  My hope is the laser dot system is more robust with the Venom.  The Viper is actually a real nice dot.  Light, Low, Bright  and Accurate ... when it works.  Sadly,  on the slide ride application it gets beat up pretty bad after about 5000 rounds.  But VORTEX is a stand up company and they are totally doing what it takes to keep the customer running.

[mfs]

John

I had a similar problem with my viper.  Went through 2 of them.  Check if it is a really tight fit.  In my opinion you don't want it to have pressure from the forward or rear.  if it is a tight fit I sanded the viper on the front and rear so it fit in with no pressure.  After I did this it has not broken again.

 

The glass was coming loose at the top of the optic and pivoting rear.  Then your dot is way off

 

When I used a plate in the dove tail, I never had a problem.  there was no pressure on front or rear.

 

 

[SCTaylor]

@johnbu well there goes my $450... daggnabit.

[Dazhi]

20 hours ago, johnbu said:

Red dot change....

 

Slide milled for sig Romeo1 in the new 6MOA.

 

 

 

Have you looked at Romeo 3?  I heard it's better than 1.  Still wondering which dot to get...

[johnbu]

11 hours ago, mfs said:

John

I had a similar problem with my viper.  Went through 2 of them.  Check if it is a really tight fit.  In my opinion you don't want it to have pressure from the forward or rear.  if it is a tight fit I sanded the viper on the front and rear so it fit in with no pressure.  After I did this it has not broken again.

 

The glass was coming loose at the top of the optic and pivoting rear.  Then your dot is way off

 

When I used a plate in the dove tail, I never had a problem.  there was no pressure on front or rear.

 

 

I went thru 7 then 8 failures.  They last about 5000-12000 rounds then they "go off".  But some are just off at the start.  My 7th was my favorite.  It was LASER accurate, giving 3" groups at 38 yards regularly.    Always on zero and always bright.  Then something inside broke.  I "assume" a wire or the switch.  It went dim, I changed the battery.  No change.  Interestingly, after 6+ months of dry firing it was at 2.7v on a 3v battery.   Then it just went out.  no dot at all.  The 8th just wouldn't hold zero to my tolerance.  It would bounce  +/- 8",  first all high, then all low, then to a side, then ... well all over.   About half of the failed dots were on a dove tail mount. The slide cut by Joe at Patriot Defense is precision, but not tight.  The dot had room front and back.

 

I don't want to give the impression that I blame Vortex.  They have been great working with me.  The dot just has some reliability issues that show up in higher volume shooting on a slide ride gun.  They have swapped VENOM 6 moa dots for the Vipers. And I will get them mounted. 

1 hour ago, Dazhi said:

 

Have you looked at Romeo 3?  I heard it's better than 1.  Still wondering which dot to get...

R3 is a really nice dot. But it's fairly large.  A buddy @Apolo runs one on his Gold Team and just loves it.  I want the dot to be as low as possible.

 

I did shoot a match with the Romeo 1 tonight.  The dot is BRIGHT.  no way anyone should be able to lose it in the bright sun.  On one stage people were able to see the dot behind me.  It is slightly higher than the Viper was, but it is still easy to find.  So far, i'm very pleased with it.

[johnbu]

Stock 2, sig Romeo 1 with protective cap,  empty K9 mag with Grams kit and Taylor Freelance 140mm extension. LOK grips and Henning cone fit guiderod.

 

Weight 44.4 oz

[philippshen]

sent my slide to PD last week, can't wait to have it back

[Gviz]

On 8/22/2018 at 8:38 AM, johnbu said:

Stock 2, sig Romeo 1 with protective cap,  empty K9 mag with Grams kit and Taylor Freelance 140mm extension. LOK grips and Henning cone fit guiderod.

 

Weight 44.4 oz

 

Im hoping with the henning base pads with grams spring and follower it will still make weight... sent my slide to PD as well. 

[motherFNbrandon]

what’s the weight difference between the henning guide rod and the plastic cz one?
can maybe save an ounce?

[johnbu]

1 hour ago, motherFNbrandon said:

what’s the weight difference between the henning guide rod and the plastic cz one?
can maybe save an ounce?

Very nearly 1 full oz difference.

[motherFNbrandon]

between the guide rod and grips, it seems like there might some leeway to make weight with

[johnbu]

27 minutes ago, motherFNbrandon said:

between the guide rod and grips, it seems like there might some leeway to make weight with

 

You can make weight with a Henning dove tail mount, light dot (not Dpp), plastic GR and wood, PD plastic or LOK grips. 

 

If you have it milled,  that  frees up enough for EITHER a steel guide rod OR aluminum grips.  OR DPP with plastic GR and light grips. 

 

With more internal milling (which i don't know enough about to recommend), you can have all options.

[johnbu]

Black ceracoat by Patriot Defense, vortex venom dot, henning cone fit GR, LOK grips. 44.4 oz.

[Kixx]

I really want this done. I’m just too big of a chicken because Production is my first love, and I want to be able to go back. If only you could actually buy slides for these guns.

[Dazhi]

22 hours ago, Kixx said:

I really want this done. I’m just too big of a chicken because Production is my first love, and I want to be able to go back. If only you could actually buy slides for these guns.

 

You buy the whole gun and send in the slide to be milled.  Then you have a CO slide.  I know it's kind like magic.

[MemphisMechanic]

23 hours ago, Kixx said:

I really want this done. I’m just too big of a chicken because Production is my first love, and I want to be able to go back. If only you could actually buy slides for these guns.

 

Man. I’ve run Production exclusively since 2008. I get it.

 

I just finished my CO build (a PPQ w/ DPP milled in as low as possible) and I have to say... this is going to make me a much more dangerous production shooter in a year.

 

The dot is right where the sights used to be, unlike my optics-ready Q5 with the dot on top of the slide. Almost no learning curve.

 

I’m learning all kinds of things about my grip, trigger control at speed, and my footwork shooting on-the-move that a decade of Production wasn’t showing me nearly as obviously.

 

For example; when shooting agressively on the move in Production you’ll know if you got low and smooth enough, from difficulty steadying the front post in the rear notch. But with it always in motion it’s hard to say exactly how far offcenter the sights are gyrating. 

 

Not in carry optics. With a dot, you see the wobble zone go from offtarget on each side to tightly wiggling around in the A-zone when you bend your knees and get low and smooth.

 

Plus, 24 rounds at the beep really is fun and lets you focus entirely on getting hits and moving hard.

[johnbu]

It IS POSSIBLE TO RUN A DOVETAIL mounted optic.

 

I did it on 2 guns. You need;

 

Henning dovetail.

Lite optic under 1 oz (vortex, sig, rmr, etc)

Lite grips (PD, Lok or wood)  i used sanded wood with skate tape.

PD guide rod or CZ full length plastic guide rod.

 

44.4 to 44.8 oz depending.

[zombywoof]

I have two, a primary and back up. I prefer the higher dot of the dove tail mount. 

 

Primary machine and EGW mounts

PD palm swell with grip tape

PD guide rod

Leupold gen 1 Delta point

magwell opened up

Nylon grip screws

44.6 oz