lgbmike Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 How much of an advantage am I giving up by shooting a single stack .45 in L10 againt everyone elses .40. Thank you, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 None. I made master in Limited using a Series 70 (old) Gold Cup so using a SS 45acp isn't the "handicap" some would have you believe. Later on...I had an SV in 45 built and that's what I use now in Limited/L10 divisions. The larger mag well and the tapered mags make it easier to perform a quick and clean reload but after spending some quality time accurately measuring the reload times between the SS and Widebody platform...I was less than a tenth of a second off when comparing times. The 45acp is still a viable choice...so much so that I download it and use in in my Glock 21 for Production Division. The big "draw" for guys using 40 S&W is really cheap brass and greater magazine capacity. Words spoken to me (in person) by Michael Voigt, " 40 and 45 acp are virtually identical performance wise...if it weren't for the advantage in magazine capacity, most shooters using 40 would still be using 45's." In L10 division, mag capacity isn't an issue. Hope that helps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Not enough to matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 None, as Chuck said. I shot L10 40 for a while. Now, when the gamers come shooting their hi cap 40's (that they shoot in Lim) with huge magwells, then it is a little more even, or their advantage, if you're shooting a single stack. I shot a single stack (SS) in 40 and was definitely at a disadvantage. You're reloading the single stack frame (Caspian) without the magwells. Also, you're shooting either 9rd mags or the 10rd mags from Tripp and some of the problems that came with them (ie swelling, reloading, not dropping free, some feeding problems). There are probably 4-5 different companies that make 10rd (reliable) mags for 45 acp, but not 40's. As far as the caliber, 45 combinations dont recoil any more (with the right bullet/powder selection/load/setup) than the 40, at least to me. The top shooters go with the 40's because of their extra mag capacity in Lim. Believe it or not, my Glock shooting minor 40 recoils just as soft and easy as 9mm 147gr loads w/ Titegroup. USPSA should change Lim 10 to Single Stack Only and I think that's what they're in process of doing now. It's only fair. I think it will draw more attention to the division. A lot of people have walked away from L10 because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBeazlie Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 If I were to go back to L-10 I would pick up my 45 in a heartbeat. First because I just love my Kimber and second those 200gr. SWC sure make pretty holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 I shoot a .45 single stack in L10 and I don't feel at a disadvantage. I'll differ from a previous poster on the merits of a single stack .40. I have a SS .40 coming built on a Caspian Race Ready frame, bull barrel, with the current Cobra mags from Tripp. There is no reason for the combination to be anything but nuts reliable if the gunsmith is smart enough (and mine is) to get the feed ramp geometry right. With practice there is no disadvantage (to speak of) on the reload. The advantage to the .40 is a smaller hole in the bull barrel for a tad more weight along the bore axis, cheaper ammo, and maybe a bit less (maybe not) perceived recoil. BTW, there are a couple of companies making some pretty nifty magwells for the single stacks. SVI and Pinnacle come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I prefer the 45 to 40 as far as a SS gun. I love to shoot lim10 every now and then. Never have felt at a disadvantage against the widebody. Reload times are so close it doesn't make a diff. A SS gun fits my hand so much better, if I could compete in open with one I would. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 None at all. Worry less and practice more and you'll blow right past the widebody guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Considering that the last 3 out of 5 Limited 10 Championships crowned a single stack 45 winner, I'd say that there's no disadvantage. If you're used to a single stack 45, and can reload it relatively well, then you're gonna be just fine. I'm still hoping that L10 is replaced with Single Stack (with 10 rounds max) just to make it more appealing to those who really think it makes a difference. Most of us know better. Rob will more than likely be shooting a single stack 45 at the L10 nats this year. Is he going to be at a disadvantage? I thought so in 2002, but he proceeded to educate me (us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgbmike Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Thanks for the input everyone. Congrats to you Phil Strader on your win in Limited at Area 3. I shot on squad #1 Friday and you tagged along on our last couple of stages(including the long wait on #2), to help paste and score, thanks so much and it was very nice to meet you. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I'm right in the middle of this situation now. I've been shooting borrowed single-stack (Kimber Gold Match) for the last 3 weeks in preparation for an upcoming match in OR. I'm struggling badly partly because I'm not used to the thin grip (I think my index is off) and the reloads are embarrasing! I often find myself wiggling the magazine around the entrance as I'm standing at the spot where I should be shooting by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I shoot an HK USP45 in L10, as it's my duty gun. I do OK (for me). I've played with my USP40, thinking it may be faster, but it really isn't. Now if I can just get the department to authorize STI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I never felt I was at a disadvantage with my SS in L-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I shoot a SS .40 (STI Trojan) in L-10. After a trip to Tripp, it works 100%. I use Cobra mags, but there are a few other 10rd mag manufacturers out there, as well. I agree with the other folks that, properly setup, .45 doesn't really lose anything to .40 in terms of recoil management, accuracy, etc. I find doing reloads w/ 170mm mags a little bit unwieldy, personally. My 10rd .40 mags are right at 140mm long. I prefer a softer feel to my recoil profile - my .40 seems to be softer than the .45 SS guns that I've handled and shot. I think TGO's performance w/ a .45 SS - even against fat .40 guns, years back - proves that the skill of the operator has far more to do with it than the relatively minor variables of .40/.45, and overall capacity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I shoot a SS .45 in L-10 for the simple reason that I like it. I'm more into having a good time in USPSA than trying to find that last tenth of a second to score a fraction of a percent higher. I shoot for fun and a .45 1911 is a great way to have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 I shoot a single stack .45acp in L10...and don't feel any disadvantage to not shooting a wide body .40. There are lots and lots of times I will get the A hit just because of the larger bullet hole, especially with the 200gr semi wad cutter!!! Everything that they can do to a wide body .40 can be done to a .45acp. Put the big beveled out magwell on it, extend the mag release, put a tungston guide rod in it, fiber optics etc.....hell get a race holster as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Assuming similar guns, I don't think there is a competitive advantage shooting .40SW or .45ACP in Limited 10 at Major power factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I shoot a single stack .45acp in L10...and don't feel any disadvantage to not shooting a wide body .40.There are lots and lots of times I will get the A hit just because of the larger bullet hole, especially with the 200gr semi wad cutter!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Funny you should say that -- some time ago, I asked why SWC's were so popular. I started using 200gr SWC's myself, in my .45acp. Seems every match, they're good for at least one "extra" A hit. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Yeah I still believe it is one of the reason I went from Sharpshooter to Expert in IDPA, my times were about the same from classifier to classifier, my hits were better. I use a Magnus hard cast bullet with 4.2-4.3 gr of clays and get about a 169 power factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaJoe Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 USPSA should change Lim 10 to Single Stack Only and I think that's what they're in process of doing now. It's only fair. I think it will draw more attention to the division. A lot of people have walked away from L10 because of this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not trying to sound argumentative but it's really not fair. I shoot a Para P14 in L-10 right now. What am I supposed to do if what your saying happens? Give up? I live in California. I'm not "supposed" to have magazines higher than ten rounds and with my pistol, I've been told, it isn't very competitive in Limited Class. So if the powers at be decide L-10 can only be SS's, am I supposed to run out and spend another 1000-2500 on a whole new rig? Nah, that's not gonna happen. Spend 80 bucks a mag to possess high caps illegally and then have to send them somewhere so that they will work as reliable as my 15 dollar MecGars? This came out a little more harsh than I wanted to but I can't say it any other way. Trying to stay civil. JOe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I shoot a Para P14-45 in L-10 and Limited (with Grams basepads to give me 18+1). I have a Single Stack Springfield I shoot for the Single Stack matches and IDPA. But for me, the Para is much easier for reloading than the single stack. Like I said, FOR ME. I am just not that proficient at speedy reloads -period. I shot the USPSA Nats last year and finished 5th in my class in L10. Guess what most of the guns that beat me were. Yep, SINGLE STACK 45s. So do I think a wide body is an advantage over the single stacks? For me it is but overall it isn't. The good shooters and proficient reloaders will always come out on top, no matter how big a magwell they have. Some hit me up about shooting the 45 in Limited too. Get a 40 and pick up 2 more rounds. Well that might be but I can't see the value of investing in another pistol along with having to start reloading a caliber I currently have no guns for. Plus, as mentioned, I like that little extra diameter hole the 45 offers. I have also found that sometimes having a few extra rounds in the mag only lets you miss more. So I would not be in favor of making L10 strictly a Single Stack division. However, I will shoot the provisional Single Stack as it now stands for the fun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm back shooting my .40 STI now and it feels like a pea-shooter compared to the .45 single stack I was shooting the last few weeks. I was shooting 200gr in the 45 at 168PF, tungsten guiderod, shockbuff and 12.5# recoil spring. The 40 is the same setup except for 180gr bullets. I don't think the STI is any heavier than a stainless singlesatck. The only thing I can think of is the wide-body's grip spreads the recoil over a larger area on my hand? Wierd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 My feeling on this is just that .40 ends up feeling a little softer. I shoot it in a SS. Shooting the .40 at roughly 170PF vs. .45 at what is suspected to be right at 165PF (180s vs. 230s), the .40 still feels softer to me. It's snappier, no doubt - but it doesn't push into my hands as much. Seems to flip less, too, but the two guns were setup differently (.45 had a 4lb heavier recoil spring in it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 If anyone wants to try this premise for themselves, I have a STI Trojan in 40 for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I normally shoot L10 with my duty USP45. I've shot the USP40, and find no real difference between the two in simple drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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