balmo Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Picked up a # of WST to test out for my Production and CO pistols. I'm planing to load to 1.130-1.140 OAL with Blue Bullets 147gr. I've tried to do a search but not a whole lot of info on the WST. Right now I'm planning to do a ladder test from 3.4-3.6gr with 0.1gr increments. Does that sound about right? How to you like WST for Production? I've only used Titegroup (and Bullseye, sparsely) for 9mm Production. How does WST compare to Titegroup? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dobbs Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 This keeps coming up, but the answer's the same. Winchester does NOT recommend WST in 9mm and therefore shows NO data for it. While you may get away with trying it, a lack of data generally shows that a powder is unsuitable/unsafe for the application considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 when i shot 9mm minor i loaded a ton of it with 124 and 147. never had a problem with it. 3.6 with a 147 will get you 850 fps or so out of a 4" gun. probably used 24# or more over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 3.5 with 145-7 gr bullet,1.135-50 cool Accurate, low sd, never been unmannerly for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewthursby Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 3.4-3.6 is about right for a 147, that's what I use and it's never failed chrono. Do make sure to chrono it when it's hot out. WST is reverse temp sensitive, so it's actually slower when it's warmer outside. And yes, I have significant data from several guns to back that up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I like WSt just fine. Why am I not using it as a Titegroup replacement then? -Its inverse temperature sensetivity -It's messy at the press It grouped well and chronoed well, but the temp issues and it flinging itself all over my press and bench were annoying enough for me to pass. I used 3.60 of WST under a 147 plated bullet and got great numbers and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Never found WST to be accurate in 9mm, I tested it in several bullet weights and though they chrono'd ok, the accuracy I look for just wasn't there. Stick with Tightgroup, N320, HP38, and WSF. I use N340 for accuracy loads (1" 5 shot groups at 25 yds). PD 124 JHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twister Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Darrel, what's your load for the PD 124 JHP? Thanks, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I love WST. 3.4 chrono at 130 out of my stock 2 with Bayou 145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of Ammo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I've used WST for years and have never had a problem with it. I agree that 3.4-3.6 should get you where you need on PF. I shoot 4.2 for 125 and 3.8 for 135 gr bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I thought it was quieter and softer than TG. But I live and shoot in a place where it gets from 30f-95F at matches. Guys here shared their data with me doing temperature tests and your load that's pf of 132 or so at 55F will not be at 85F. Yeah you could load for 85F and probably be safe everywhere but I didn't feel like doing that. Should there be another "panic" then I'd use it for practice loads for sure. But it is not a match powder for me after initial testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, rowdyb said: I thought it was quieter and softer than TG. But I live and shoot in a place where it gets from 30f-95F at matches. Guys here shared their data with me doing temperature tests and your load that's pf of 132 or so at 55F will not be at 85F. Yeah you could load for 85F and probably be safe everywhere but I didn't feel like doing that. Should there be another "panic" then I'd use it for practice loads for sure. But it is not a match powder for me after initial testing. Yet again, our preferences differ. Down here in the South it's easy to find a hot range day 80% of the year. So I like inverse temp sensitive powders: the new ammo Garran and I shot this weekend made 133pf with Prima V which is also inverse sensitive. So I know that if we go to a match this fall in Wisconsion, we're 100% good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Oh, and here's some WST data in 124, 130, and 135 for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: Yet again, our preferences differ. We have a lot of differences, but you still let me borrow your coat. So thank you. I did say I liked it but I wanted it to be a sure thing replacement for my titegroup, and inititally I don't feel like it is. So I'm still looking around. (I also hated N320 which is beloved by many so nothing new for me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balmo Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Thanks for pointing the temp sensitivity rowdy. It's pretty mild here in the Bay Area but we do start matches at ~60ish F in the morning and end up at around 90F in the afternoon. I just though of trying some thing out other than my go to Titegroup. I'll load for development but still use Titegroup this weekend. Let me see if WST is accurate for my gun. Memphis, thanks for the comprehensive table with WST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 11 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: Down here in the South it's easy to find a hot range day 80% of the year. Point of reference, you're at a higher latitude than Rowdy... I really like WST, still have 4lbs but wont' use it for match ammo due to the temperature swings. It'll get burned up for practice ammo soon enough though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) I had the same question recently... So I did some load development/testing with a 147gr projectile and WST. I think it's plenty accurate and cleaner than WSF and Titegroup when loaded near minimum power factor. Edited August 17, 2017 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balmo Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Thanks for the list, 4n2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Ouch. That steel uptick in velocity between 3.8 and 4.0 is a potential sign that things are... getting seriously sketchy and you're seeing a pressure spike. Or, it could be a small sample size and a fluke. Depends. But I'd be careful. Just in case. I'd be much more comfortable running it behind a coated bullet - 3.8gr would probably have you up around 133 PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: Ouch. That steel uptick in velocity between 3.8 and 4.0 is a potential sign that things are... getting seriously sketchy and you're seeing a pressure spike. Or, it could be a small sample size and a fluke. Depends. But I'd be careful. Just in case. I'd be much more comfortable running it behind a coated bullet - 3.8gr would probably have you up around 133 PF. I pushed it a little further (4.2gr - 5 rounds - unrecorded) and everything still looked/felt good. This reassured me that my 3.8gr load was plenty safe. Unfortunately there are no reliable coated options up here and I don't cast. Edited August 18, 2017 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Right. Canada. Carry on, and that's good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: Right. Canada. Carry on, and that's good to know. Yup, us "snow mexicans"... lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 17 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: Ouch. That steel uptick in velocity between 3.8 and 4.0 is a potential sign that things are... getting seriously sketchy and you're seeing a pressure spike. MM - The rate of velocity increase is not dropping off. Look at its change from 3.6 to 3.8 and from 3.8 to 4.0. The spike you refer to occurs when charge goes up and velocity does not. That is definitely a no-go area in reloading. It is also why everyone who reloads should have a chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balmo Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 I was surprised when I popped the WST open; powders' gray! Powder's fluffy and light compared to TG. Loaded 4.6gr on Blue Bullets 147gr at 1.135"COL. I'll post my chrono results later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, balmo said: I was surprised when I popped the WST open; powders' gray! Powder's fluffy and light compared to TG. Loaded 4.6gr on Blue Bullets 147gr at 1.135"COL. I'll post my chrono results later. I sure hope you meant 3.6! I ran 3.6 in a Glock 34 @ 1.135 for 132pf, 4.6 is way overcharged IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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