Sig0431 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 We wont know the full details of the voluntary upgrade Sig announced yesterday until Monday but I am curious at this point and as we receive more information, is this something you will do? If not why? I found the following information about the upgrade program from TTAG who was invited to Sig HQ yesterday to talk with them about this issue and the way forward. Quote Production on current P320 models has been halted. The upgrades made for the MHS version of the P320 (the M17) are coming soon to the commercial P320 via the voluntary upgrade program. Those upgrades include: A reduced-mass trigger shoe. The current version, which may change slightly before hitting the commercial market, is skinnier and significantly more hollowed-out on the back side. It also has a hole in the top rear. Mass is reduced by 34%. This is, by far, the most critical upgrade component as it relates to drop safety. A reduced-mass striker (a 25% reduction) and sear (a 37% reduction). A trigger disconnect safety, which disengages the trigger bar if the slide is out of battery. This lever is seen at the top left of the chassis in the photo above (looks not unlike a sock puppet). The sear housing geometry has also been changed. SIG can and will perform all of these upgrades on current P320s if the owner so chooses. No change to the firearm’s serial number is necessary. You can read the full article HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossgvr4 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 IS this just for the Standard P320 or the X-Fives as well ? If they "voluntary" recall is 100% free I'll send my FCUs and strikers in one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig0431 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) This is not for the X-Five as it stands right now. The X-Five was also tested and had no unintentional discharges. Also at this time this is not a "recall", the P320 passed all drop tests required by law, this is a "voluntary upgrade". I will be interested to see if Sig will cover FFL fee's (I doubt it) and what the turn around time will be. Edited August 10, 2017 by Sig0431 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f2benny Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 It's not transfer so it goes directlySent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig0431 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, f2benny said: It's not transfer so it goes directly Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk You are correct sorry about that. I said FFL because since I live on a military base, the fee to ship from our FFL on base is cheaper than going out in town to UPS or FEDEX so I am just used to saying FFL. Either way I doubt they will cover any shipping. Would be nice if they covered return shipping and some sort of online tracking system by weapon SN so you can see the status while they are working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeltFed Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 If the manual safety FCU is covered by this upgrade, then yes I'll send mine in. My wife says I have to. It is good to hear the M17s will be out for civilians soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 SIG just stopped the production of the gun. This is not an "upgrade". It is a full scale recall. Last Friday SIG issued a smirky statement denying everything. In a couple of days they had an "upgrade' available. The most reasonable decision should be getting your 320s "upgraded", selling everything off at a loss and find a different platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig0431 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 minute ago, cheby said: SIG just stopped the production of the gun. This is not an "upgrade". It is a full scale recall. Last Friday SIG issued a smirky statement denying everything. In a couple of days they had an "upgrade' available. The most reasonable decision should be getting your 320s "upgraded", selling everything off at a loss and find a different platform. I "personally" do not agree with "sell everything off at a loss and find a different platform." They have determined that the factory trigger is the cause behind this and many owners like myself have already installed triggers from Gray Guns which is the same trigger installed on the X-Five which is not affected by this issue. BUT... it can also depend on your primary use for the P320. I use mine for USPSA Limited with a fair amount of work done to the weapon. If my EDC was a P320 then I can understand even after having the upgrade done dealing with questioning the weapon and safety but in that case I would upgrade to the X-Carry once it releases. This is just "IMO" and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Please read about it a little more. It appears that Gray Guns triggers are even more unsafe then the stock ones. This is a good place to start: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27008-P320-drop-safety-issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadhatRR Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Please provide a link or at least a page number where the GG triggers are shown to be "more unsafe". I don't feel like digging through a 68 page thread looking for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, MadhatRR said: Please provide a link or at least a page number where the GG triggers are shown to be "more unsafe". I don't feel like digging through a 68 page thread looking for it. there are many references. here is one of them: Page 35, post#344: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27008-P320-drop-safety-issues/page35 But please spend some time and do some reading about this whole issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHitchcock Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 What did they change on the x5 that makes this not an issue? I thought the only changes were springs and trigger face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangMan Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 hour ago, MHitchcock said: What did they change on the x5 that makes this not an issue? I thought the only changes were springs and trigger face? The X5 has the flat face trigger, the trigger itself is a tiny bit lighter which is what makes it safer. The issue is with the trigger face having enough momentum to pull itself when dropped just right, with the flat face trigger being a tiny bit lighter it doesn't have the same amount if momentum to overcome the pull weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangMan Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 As for me, I already have the Apex advanced trigger installed on mine but I'm most likely going to swap the stock trigger in and send it in to have the upgrades done. This is all based on the response of others who have it done first, if they get it back and it has adverse side effects to trigger feel I'll leave mine as is, and how long the turn around time is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The X5 shipped with the lightened striker, along with a few other minor changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud White Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Im going to play the wait and see game .. my daily carry isn't a p320 I've been waiting for the x carry to maybe fill that roll .. i want to see if people complain of issues after the upgrade.. since the X5 isn't bothered and the p320 tacops carry isn't a daily carry its easy to wait .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 11 hours ago, Sig0431 said: This is not for the X-Five as it stands right now. The X-Five was also tested and had no ND's. Also at this time this is not a "recall", the P320 passed all drop tests required by law, this is a "voluntary upgrade". I will be interested to see if Sig will cover FFL fee's (I doubt it) and what the turn around time will be. What is the ND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 https://youtu.be/ch7si_VQsGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig0431 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, ltdmstr said: What is the ND? Negligent Discharge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Negligent Discharge implies user error or carelessness. A negligent discharge (ND) is a discharge of a firearm involving culpable carelessness. In judicial and military technical terms, a negligent discharge is a chargeable offence. An accidental discharge (AD) involves a similar definition of the shooter pulling a trigger when not intended, but without as much of the legal ramificications. Unintentional discharge (UD) is the event of a firearm discharging (firing) at a time not intended by the user due to a mechanical malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig0431 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 47 minutes ago, sfinney said: Negligent Discharge implies user error or carelessness. A negligent discharge (ND) is a discharge of a firearm involving culpable carelessness. In judicial and military technical terms, a negligent discharge is a chargeable offence. An accidental discharge (AD) involves a similar definition of the shooter pulling a trigger when not intended, but without as much of the legal ramificications. Unintentional discharge (UD) is the event of a firearm discharging (firing) at a time not intended by the user due to a mechanical malfunction. And you don't consider dropping your weapon to be user error or carlessness? I am in the military and if you drop your weapon and it fires it would be considered a ND because your inability to maintain positive control of said firearm was the cause. Now back to the actual topic of this post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sig0431 said: And you don't consider dropping your weapon to be user error or carlessness? I am in the military and if you drop your weapon and it fires it would be considered a ND because your inability to maintain positive control of said firearm was the cause. Now back to the actual topic of this post... I've knocked a holstered handgun off the nightstand, or off the seat of the car once or twice in my life. Life happens. What title you apply to it isn't a huge concern to me. Edited August 10, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 18 hours ago, alma said: The X5 shipped with the lightened striker, along with a few other minor changes. Bruce...sorry Alma, so are you saying that the X5 is drop safe? You seem to know everything there is to know about Sig's so what say you? There are tons of videos out there that say otherwise but as I said before, you've got the inside track at Sig so you would know better than the rest of the internet/world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Sig0431 said: And you don't consider dropping your weapon to be user error or carlessness? I am in the military and if you drop your weapon and it fires it would be considered a ND because your inability to maintain positive control of said firearm was the cause. Now back to the actual topic of this post... Well, how about if a prop fails? Or someone knocks the gun out of your hand? Or your holster breaks? Any of those situations may involve negligence, or maybe not. There are lots of ways for a gun to drop with no negligence involved. Just curious as to use of the term. Do you have any details on the incident(s) you're referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig0431 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 minute ago, ltdmstr said: Well, how about if a prop fails? Or someone knocks the gun out of your hand? Or your holster breaks? Any of those situations may involve negligence, or maybe not. There are lots of ways for a gun to drop with no negligence involved. Just curious as to use of the term. Do you have any details on the incident(s) you're referring to? There is no incident. Someone asked what ND was from my statement "The X-Five was also tested and had no ND's". Someone else responded to correct my use of ND by saying "Negligent Discharge implies user error or carelessness." ND... AD... fact is that every situation is different and can result in being determined as ND, AD or UD. I wanted to use the term UD but I made the assumption (since I am military) that UD would not be as vastly known by readers as ND may be. I will edit the two letters so that we can get back on topic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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