Sig0431

Went out today to chrono some 180 gr black bullets. I had three sets loaded at 4.6, 4.4 and 4.2 with N320. Shot 10 rounds each and my PF was in the 260's - 270's for all strings. I find this hard to believe and wonder if my chrono has started to die.

Cant do kydex because the thumb rest is where the mount for the belt would be and would push the pistol more than the allowed 2 inches from the belt. Flashlights are not authorized and while it may not be an actual flashlight it would only cause problems at matches when people see it. I have been making changes and using my 3D printer with the current holster to ensure that the trigger area is covered. It is not perfect yet.

Do you happen to own a P320? I am wondering if the P320 can fit in the ghost holster. Since it all comes down to trigger guard size, from the holsters I have been playing with, they are not hard to modify to accept different weapons for the most part. If not, we can talk off line to see if I can mail you one of my lowers and you let me know what you see as to fitting in the ghost holster.

thanks for taking the time to respond. I am surprised that your glock will not fit with the DAA holster. When I was talking with DAA they said "Shane Coley is using our Alpha X holster in conjunction with the SJC frame weight, from the pictures I have seen it appears that he has made no modification to the holster. I have reached out to him via Facebook messenger but I am yet to hear back from him." I also sent him a message on FB, it shows he read it but never responded. Sadly Ghost does not make a holster for the P320 and I dont really have the funds to order one just to see if it could fit.

I own the X5 grip as well as the P320 grip with the SP magwell. There are pro and con's to both as well last I talked to SP they have no plans to make magwells for the X5 grip. X5 grip Ergo is a lot better than the P320 grip Magwell has smaller opening than the SP No bass magwell option for added weight Can remove the magwell to shoot in other divisions P320 grip with SP magwell Larger opening More than 1 magwell available Not a simple bolt on part For my hands the magwell rides so high on the grip that my pinkey and part of my palm ride on the magwell which I am not a fan of. If you are very accurate with reloading then the larger SP magwell will not be a huge benefit to you. I have had the X5 grip and magwell for about 3 months and I have not installed the P320 grip yet but I still like the SP magwell.

Just curious what 3D printers are you using?

Recently I received an SJC Frame weight with thumb rest for the P320. My goal is to post a full review here of this product showing any recoil reduction, pro's, con's etc. The aspect that I am working on now is a holster. Since I am using a thumb rest I have to go towards a race holster. As well the frame weight rests below the rail section so when looking into a race holster, I have to find one where it is possible to remove material below the trigger guard. Just so you get a visual of what I have to do, here is an example of a member where who modified a DAA Racer to fit the frame weight for his glock. I currently have a Guga Ribas holster that I have been modifying to work but there are a few other holsters out there that I am interested in trying. Sadly due to my location, I have no access to any of these holsters to see if they will work with the P320. I also do not have the funds to purchase these holsters just to see if they will work. I will gladly pay for shipping and a extra few bucks if someone is willing to send me out one of these holsters so I can test (without removing material of course) and I will send back! I know many P320 owners here also own other pistols they use for USPSA IDPA or 3-Gun so I would like to see if anyone has any of the following holsters that could provide some insight as to if the P320 could fit and other follow on questions I may have. I understand that these holsters do not offer specific versions for the P320 but that does not mean that they will not work. - Safariland 014 - DAA Race Master or Alpha-X (really looking into the insert for the P320 or P320X5 to see how much material can be removed from under the rail. They also have an insert for the P226X5 with XMount but I am not sure if the P320 would fit in a 226 insert) - Super Ghost Ultimate - Black Scorpion Master or Grand Master pro (these are hard to find info on. I have contacted the company and offered to send my grip to them, waiting to hear back) - CR Speed (these say universal for the WSM2 but still have you select a type of firearm. I have heard of people using shims to make it work. - DAA Racer (I would have purchased this already as the picture above and posts on this site show it works but they do not make one for the P320 specifically but maybe one they offer might fit.) If I missed any that you recommend I look into, please let me know and thank you in advance for the help.

Your good brother, this is how we all learn and develop, positive communication. Like I said I am only passing info that has been provided to me and no matter what they say I still wont run my pistol like this until I have it completely covered.

I agree fully which is why I was surprised when talking to a few range masters that they were good with it. One explained his reasoning to me and it made sense. He stated (this is not quoted, just from memory of the conversation and researching what he said in the rule book) that the rules for the holster as it pertains to covering the trigger are for when you are going to "commence a course of fire". There are two types of "commencement", one is the "commence a course of fire" which is when you are about to make ready and the other is "commencement of a match" which is when you receive the safety brief etc. The holster requirements after commencement of the match has taken place and prior to commencing a course of fire are: 5.2.1 Carry and Storage – Except when within the boundaries of a safety area, or when under the supervision and direct command of a Range Officer, competitors must carry their handguns unloaded in a gun case, gun bag or in a holster securely attached to a belt on their person (see Rule 10.5.1). A competitor who, while not at a safety area or under RO supervision, removes their holster or their equipment belt with their handgun still in the holster, shall be considered to be in violation of Rule 5.2.1 and subject to disqualification from the match. 5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective action shall be made. When it comes to commencing the course of fire the rules (as we have covered) are more strict and define aspects of the holster that are required. When commencing the course of fire you have to consider "what" has the ability to access the trigger area after you make ready. The only object that could access the trigger is my finger since there should not be any other objects that I am leaning on or near my holster. If there were I would not be able to draw anyway if there was an object against my holster. The current holster I have been modifying to fit is impossible for my finger to get near the trigger, even my pinkey cant even touch the side of the trigger. He did mention that if I were shooting a 3-Gun match he probably would not allow the holster since I would be moving through the course of fire with the weapon loaded and potentially moving around obstacles and going prone. But for a USPSA match it would not be a concern and that in his experience I may have an RO ask that I place my pistol in my range bag while in the safety area after the stage. But that is something that he said would be rare since the RO confirms your weapon is clear after the course of fire. He said that having your pistol in a range bag or gun case as authorized in 5.2.1 "could" cause the trigger to be pulled if you have items like cleaning rods etc. Keep in mind while the rules and the way they can be read can say one thing, I personally have to have a "warm and fuzzy" myself so I have yet and will not use the frame weight with a speed holster until I am able to cover the entire trigger area. In the end I cant argue with his reasoning and this one range officer has been certified and running local and many national matches for years.

Sorry, it is a habit still being in the military (Range Safety Officer), I mean Range Master. As for the rules. Unless you know of another location where it is covered it states" 5.2.7 Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire wearing 5.2.7.4 A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger while holstered yes that does seem pretty clear, I was under the impression that the trigger has to be "completely" covered. This is why I have been working to find a holster that will cover the entire trigger area but as I have been told by many range masters from different locations, as long as I cant get my finger in there they are good with it. The following allows the Ranger Master to deem a holster unsafe and I would not blame them from saying that this is unsafe if they can see the trigger. So once again why I am still working on other options. 5.2.6 USPSA Handgun matches will not require the use of a particular type or brand of holster. However, the Range Master may deem that a competitor’s holster is unsafe and order that it be improved to his satisfaction, failing which it must be withdrawn from the match

Thanks for the information about the holster. I will continue to look into it. I am really not a fan of how it mounts to the belt but I am sure I can come up with other means to do that.

You are correct. I checked with my local RSO and they were good with it. The rules don't state (that I have found) that the trigger has to be covered enough to prevent your finger from pulling the trigger but the RSO said it is more common sense when making that determination. I am still looking at other holsters just to see what it is out there that I can work with.

I am not held back by any restriction, I just have not had time to really test this. They have been available for a few months now just not many people running them or know about them.

I don't have a lot of info that I feel comfortable passing to the community as I am still working with it. It is made by SJC. They make these for glocks as well. I am still testing the benefits and do not have any solid results that I have compiled. The other aspect that I am working is a holster. You can get a custom kydex holster made for it if you remove the thumb rest but with the thumb rest you have to use a speed holster. The only company that makes a speed holster for the P320 is DAA. After speaking with them their holster will not work with the frame weight even with modifications. I have been modifying a Guga Ribas holster and have it working for the P320 grip, I am now working on the X-Five grip. Alma Cole is also testing out this frame weight as well Max Michel received one and he is testing to see if he can make something work with his DAA X5 holster. There is a chance that other speed holsters like the safariland 014 or CR Speed will fit the P320 trigger guard but I do not have access to other holsters and really don't have the funds to buy $200 holsters just to test if the P320 will fit. Really it is going to come down to cost vs performance gains. You will spend about $140 for the frame weight then have to spend an additional $150+ for a new holster that you may have to modify so the gains will have to be worth the cost. Once I have some solid information and results from shooting in both .40 and 9mm I will start a thread. I may start a small thread to see if anyone with a P320 also owns race holsters for their other pistols so I can find out what may fit.

Don't see why not. Contact Robert Burke at http://www.thesigarmorer.com/ and ask him. He has milled many P320 slides for adjustable rear sights and should be able to let you know if there are any issues.

I did compare them without the base pads and had the same results just did not think to take pictures, as well Sig also said that this is normal. Keep in mind that these mags have no issues with any P320, they only case an issue with using the SP basepads and the new X-five magwell. If I use these mags in my older P320 grip with SP magwell there is no issues. This is why I named this "interesting observation" I will try and post some images of the mags next to each other without the base pads tonight. There is also the chance that I just received a bad mag and no one else has this issue when they compare theirs.

Talked to Sig today about these magazines. They stated that this is not unusual and that all magazines made in Italy are being phased out as they move all manufacturing to the USA. They also let me know that there would be no issue that they would be aware of with taking a file to the top part of the mag release notch to open the area up enough to allow the mag release to catch. I will work on this over the weekend and hope all goes well.

I contacted Springer Precision today and asked if they were planning to release any magwells for the X-five Grip. They informed me that at this time there is no plan to make these. So I began working with my new X-five grip and magazines with SP basepads to see where I would need to remove material in order for the mags to fit with the X-Five magwell. I came upon something interesting. I have 5 new magazines for use with 40s&w. 4 are made in the USA and 1 is made in Italy. Upon inserting each magazine I noticed that the 4 magazines made in the USA had no issues fitting the X-Five grip, with magwell and the SP basepads. The 1 magazine made in Italy did not fit. Upon inspecting the magazines side by side I noticed that the mag release notch in the magazine from Italy is noticeably lower that the mags made in the USA. The following picture are the mags side by side with the basepads. You can see the difference in the mag release cutout clearly (USA mag on right). I then went and took a look at my magazines I that I have in 9mm both from the USA and from Italy and the same differences was present in these as well. I have owned these mags for years now. So now I am wondering: 1. Can I bring this issue up to Sig and see if they will replace my Italy mags with USA mags since the Italy mags are obviously different 2. Do I file out the top of the mag catch on the Italy mags enough at the top to allow them to fit in the grip? Lesson learned here, if you have SP basepads and USA mags, you should not need to order a new set of basepads with the X-five cut as they should fit the X-five grip. Also if you did not notice in the picture there is a difference in the followers as well between the two mags. I my brass does catch the front lip of the mag on the USA mags but not the Italy one, this is a simple filing job to fix but there is obviously a fair amount of difference in these two Sig branded mags.

Military and LE share the same program and pricing. You can order them through Quantico tactical. You just have to provide credentials after you have placed your order. http://www.quanticotactical.com/asp/items.asp?type=M&CMN=Sig Sauer LE/Military&CMNum=206&CMSNum=1086&CMSN=Grips

I would wait on the conversion kit. There is nothing wrong with shooting limited minor when getting into the sport. It will make you really focus on hitting Alphas as you loose more points than major PF once you hit outside the A zone. I ran limited minor for a long time before I moved to Major and don't regret it at all. With your set up you can run Limited, CO and I "think" production if you remove the magwell so shoot the living out of the Sig for a few seasons. Advice that I have received time and time again is to shoot your current set up until your skill level out preforms the capabilities of the weapon, then look at upgrading. Just like any other passion, sport hobby etc, money will not make you an expert, time and dedication. If you were handed Max's Open Division pistol, it would not win nationals for you. I have seen people with glocks and other more popular weapons out preform those with 2011's in limited division. Here are some other items you can consider investing in other than parts for your sig. I personally own all of these items I am recommending and stand behind them 100%. Dry Fire Target Kit: http://benstoegerproshop.com/scaled-dryfire-target-kit-including-uspsa-metric-targets-poppers-mini-poppers-and-dots/ Dry Fire Drills Book: (Ben Stoeger does offer a book and targets combo but I highly recommend this book for those new to the sport but both books are outstanding) http://forums.brianenos.com/store/product/7-refinement-and-repetition-dry-fire-drills-for-dramatic-improvement-by-steve-Anderson/ MantisX Training System: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GF81M5W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Shot timer (this is way cheaper than the usual shot timer and I recommend this for individual use for training, leave the more costly timers for down the road): http://lasrapp.com/store/rangetech-shot-timer

Thank you all for the info.

I know there is probably no such thing as Mag OAL but it is having an affect on me with 40s&w that I never had an issue with when reloading 9mm. I am reloading 180gr BBI 40s&w for my Sig P320. I did my plunk test, found my OAL and like normal, loaded my first few rounds a little under the barrel OAL. After about 10 rounds I ran them though my case gauge and then loaded them into the new 40s&w mags I got. I shortly discovered that the OAL of my reloads would not allow me to insert more that one round in the mag at the bullet tip would hit the mag. I loaded a single round and inserted it into my P320 and it had no issues going into battery. I then started setting the bullet lower until it would clear the magazine and my new OAL I have to load at is 1.157 compared to my barrel OAL which is 1.206. Is this normal? As I mentioned in all my loading of 9mm over the past few years I have never had a barrel OAL not fit in a magazine before. I have no issue with loading at 1.157 as that is acceptable for sure for 40s&w, I just never had a barrel that could run an OAL greater than the mag could fit.

If you look at the top of the page of the link you will see it says "Sig Sauer LE/Military P320 Full-Size Caliber Exchange Kits". They do have non program discount items at the following link with a disclaimer of "We are SIG SUAERS largest LE/military distributor, but occasionally we make special buys through commercial channels of firearms we can sell to the general public. The weapons listed below are limited availability." http://www.quanticotactical.com//ASP/manuDetail.asp?CMNum=238 I only know this because I order most of my Sig stuff with them since I am military and the company is great to deal with. The are military and LEO dealers for other companies as well and offer a lot of commercial sale items but for Sig it is next to non sadly for commercial sales.

Keep in mind that the items on Quantico Tactical are for those that qualify for the Military and LE program. The PELT2 will lower the trigger pull slightly but no where near as much as the Comp trigger kit that they sell. If you get lucky enough to order one before they sell out I highly recommend it. Also take note of your finger placement on the trigger as the higher you set your finger on the trigger the more weight it takes, I personally place my finger mid to low on the trigger. Factory ammo is always a trial and error until you find the what feels best for you. Before I started reloading I personally shot Blazer 124 and 147. After a while I ran 124 only as the 147 did not produce results above the 124 to justify the additional cost and where I am it was not as easy to come by. I recommend waiting on the APEX trigger bar until after you receive the GG comp trigger kit. I think you will find that the GG trigger kit will be everything you are looking for. If you search in this section there are some people who have installed the APEX trigger bar and there is mixed reviews. I "think" some had issues with it pushing the trigger forward more than they would like. I did not read into it to much since with the GG trigger I am beyond happy and have no need at this time to adjust any other aspect of the trigger. You both are on a great start and sharing information like this is what I love about this sport. Most shooters don't hide any special hidden secrets, we enjoy sharing and helping others grow. I remember my first match I attended I was talking to a fellow shooter who is a Grand Master. When sign up started he paid my entry fee and made sure we were on the same squad that day. He gave me pointers before each stage, watched me run the stage and gave feedback. It was something that really stuck with me and I do my best to "pay it forward" by helping out those I can with what information I have.

No need to apologize, we have all be in your shoes at some point in the past and many here will gladly help just do some research before starting new threads with a simple one line question (this does not apply to this post). There is a lot of historical threads with invaluable information so take some time to browse the Sig threads. The SP and GG guide rods are going to be the same for the most part. GG does make a fat guide rod that prevents spring binding. I personally have used SP but I would have no issues with using either companies. Yes the guide rod is toolless. You remove your slide from the FCU and pull out the guide rod and spring, it is just like installing and removing your factory recoil spring. Search YouTube and you will see numerous videos on these.