Carry Optics - 10 round limit abolished from 2/1/17

[mreed911]

1 minute ago, d_striker said:

 

What you're saying above is a contradiction of what you said regarding Production just loading up and shoot Limited minor.

 

 

 

I don't believe I talked about Production loading up and shooting Limited Minor, but it's certainly an option if they want to use larger capacity mags.  Same with SSTK moving into L10 if they want.

[d_striker]

 

1 minute ago, mreed911 said:

 

I don't believe I talked about Production loading up and shooting Limited Minor, but it's certainly an option if they want to use larger capacity mags.  Same with SSTK moving into L10 if they want.

 

2 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

Because there are divisions for them without optics: Production and Limited.

 

PCC isn't strictly an optics division - it's optional.

 

[d_striker]

11 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

if you look at all the other divisions there is nothing stopping someone from competing up with their existing gear (SS to Lim10, Lim, Open) (Production to Lim 10, Lim, open) (Revo to Production, Lim 10, Lim, Open) but by your logic CO shooters need to be protected from the competitive advantage of not using an optic. 

 

ps I also think SS should allow any single column magazine pistol, I don't think 1911 shooters need protection from sig 220s

 

I could be way off, but that's what I'm interpreting also. 

 

I think the only valid reason for not allowing iron sights in CO is that Production division would become a ghost town...Which may or may not be a bad thing.

 

Production has always been one of the fastest growing divisions.  My belief is that this is due to the Production Gun List.  New shooters to USPSA typically have a gun that is on this list.

 

My belief is that Production also has the highest attrition rate.  My theory is that it's due to the limited capacity.

Edited February 1, 2017 by d_striker

[mreed911]

42 minutes ago, d_striker said:

 

 

 

 

I never said Production could load up and shoot limited - I mentioned those as two divisions for folks with non-optic handguns (ignoring SSTK which is 1911 only).  Production if you're okay with fewer modifications and 10 rounds, Limited if you want more mods and rounds.

 

Now, with an optic, you have two divisions (ignoring PCC): CO (Production Optics + Limited mags) and Open.  It's a way for folks to shoot open without having to buy an Open gun.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by mreed911

[JGus]

I'm just chuckling to myself reading the comments from people that don't care about Carry OPTICS division and have no intention of competing in Carry OPTICS. For some reason they are upset enough to criticize Carry OPTICS, and upset that the only division with OPTICS in its title requires a mandatory optic.   If you don't care, then actually don't care.

[zhunter]

53 minutes ago, JGus said:

I'm just chuckling to myself reading the comments from people that don't care about Carry OPTICS division and have no intention of competing in Carry OPTICS. For some reason they are upset enough to criticize Carry OPTICS, and upset that the only division with OPTICS in its title requires a mandatory optic.   If you don't care, then actually don't care.

t's funny, kind of like people complaining about election results but did not vote isn't he election.  That is NOT a political statement, just an analogy of people complaining about CO who don't shoot CO and likely won't shoot CO in the future

[d_striker]

3 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

I never said Production could load up and shoot limited - I mentioned those as two divisions for folks with non-optic handguns (ignoring SSTK which is 1911 only).  Production if you're okay with fewer modifications and 10 rounds, Limited if you want more mods and rounds.

 

Now, with an optic, you have two divisions (ignoring PCC): CO (Production Optics + Limited mags) and Open.  It's a way for folks to shoot open without having to buy an Open gun.

 

 

 

You said that you can shoot a Production gun in Limited as I quoted above.  To which I said, using that rationale, why not just have one division and shoot every gun in Open.  (purely playing devil's advocate)

 

You then validated my point by contradicting yourself by stating, "...creating divisions to measure competitiveness among similar weapons."

 

In other words, it's not ideal to shoot a 9mm Production gun in Limited which was my point...  

 

The guns in Production and CO are EXACTLY the same and both divisions are scored minor only.  They all come from the Production Gun List.  The only difference is the optic requirement.  

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by d_striker

[Brooke]

7 hours ago, JGus said:

I'm just chuckling to myself reading the comments from people that don't care about Carry OPTICS division and have no intention of competing in Carry OPTICS. For some reason they are upset enough to criticize Carry OPTICS, and upset that the only division with OPTICS in its title requires a mandatory optic.   If you don't care, then actually don't care.

 

Thank you!! There are divisions and there are rules for the divisions. Pick one and for God's sake quit whining. I don't like this change, but I'll buy some stuff and adapt to it, already have actually. If you want to shoot iron sights there are choices. There has not been a choice for optics except the space guns with no restrictions and major scoring. Now there is. Count your blessings! 

 

 

[OPENB]

10 hours ago, JGus said:

I'm just chuckling to myself reading the comments from people that don't care about Carry OPTICS division and have no intention of competing in Carry OPTICS. For some reason they are upset enough to criticize Carry OPTICS, and upset that the only division with OPTICS in its title requires a mandatory optic.   If you don't care, then actually don't care.

Kinda like all the anti-PCCers complaining about PCC. 

[AZGunut]

D_Striker they guns between Production and Carry Optics are not the same. Originate from the same list but you can do far more modifications in Carry Optics than you can in production which is one of the reasons I've shot it a bit and haven't shot production in 5 plays years.  Not a huge live of CO but do think it is fun and gives you much more freedom!

[mosher]

Looks like a good move, generating more interest.  Hopefully that translates into more  activity.

[JGus]

3 hours ago, OPENB said:

Kinda like all the anti-PCCers complaining about PCC. 

 

I don't compete in PCC but i'm glad to see it added as a division. Just adds more options and appeal to USPSA. 

[Thomas H]

12 hours ago, AZGunut said:

D_Striker they guns between Production and Carry Optics are not the same. Originate from the same list but you can do far more modifications in Carry Optics than you can in production which is one of the reasons I've shot it a bit and haven't shot production in 5 plays years.  Not a huge live of CO but do think it is fun and gives you much more freedom!

 

You can?  Other than "adding an optic"?

 

Such as...?

[BritinUSA]

Here's three; Undercut trigger guard, stipple all the parts of the frame, even the parts that you don't grip, mill as much material off the slide as you want without making a hole.

[mreed911]

37 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

 

You can?  Other than "adding an optic"?

 

Such as...?

 

Anything the rules for that division specifically allow, which is far more than Production.  Appendix D7 provides these.

[mreed911]

33 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Here's three; Undercut trigger guard, stipple all the parts of the frame, even the parts that you don't grip, mill as much material off the slide as you want without making a hole.

 

Actually, you're wrong about the milling part.  You can add texture but not anything else.  "Adding texture" is pretty broad, though.

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, mreed911 said:

 

Actually, you're wrong about the milling part.  You can add texture but not anything else.  "Adding texture" is pretty broad, though.

 

"Sir, these 1 inch wide 'cocking serrations' that run the entire length of your slide look a little suspicious..."

 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[mreed911]

10 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

"Sir, these 1 inch wide 'cocking serrations' that run the entire length of your slide look a little suspicious..."

 

 

 

"I have big, meaty hands."

[JAFO]

Don't forget adding weight up to 45oz rather than 2oz over approved weight.

[Thomas H]

18 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

Here's three; Undercut trigger guard, stipple all the parts of the frame, even the parts that you don't grip, mill as much material off the slide as you want without making a hole.

 

Huh.  Hadn't read many of the changes since the original version of the appendix came out. Interesting to see all the stuff that is allowed----they really DID make it pretty much match what a lot of folks do to their carry guns, if their carry gun has an optic. (Your first two are correct, but your third will get you into trouble, I'll note.)

 

Thanks for the replies, folks.  I hadn't realized so much had changed (with regard to allow modifications to the guns) since the first version. 

 

As I said earlier, I'm thinking the new mag capacity limits are going to bring more people into trying CO.

[Norther]

3 hours ago, Thomas H said:

 

 

As I said earlier, I'm thinking the new mag capacity limits are going to bring more people into trying CO.

I think so too. I was interested before, but didn't make definite plans until this came about. Now I'll be converting my Production gun semipermanently. Not like I shot Production much anyway. 

I know my son will like it better than the Limited minor he's been shooting it in. 

[USCSBarney]

I'll wait to see what STI applies for the H.O.S.T. Now that would be a hoot!

[Norther]

1 hour ago, USCSBarney said:

I'll wait to see what STI applies for the H.O.S.T. Now that would be a hoot!

Not legal. Single action. 

[OPENB]

If we don't modify the weight limit, aren't we making this a "plastic only" division again? Won't most steel guns be too heavy? I'd assume a Stock II+Henning extended mag+dot & mount will be well over 45oz. That is only an example, as the Stock II is the cool kid gun of the day. 

[USCSBarney]

On 2/2/2017 at 11:40 PM, six-gun shooter said:

Not legal. Single action. 

Balls! I had such hope.