Fla Open Poll

[BooCow]

Every year at the Awards Frank states THIS IS YOUR MATCH. NOW is your chance to make it YOUR match.

Tell us what you want............... We've heard complaints about the prize table every year. It has been the policy of the Open to assure that every shooter receives a prize. With over 400 shooters this has not been an easy task. Our hopes were that if you received something you couldn't use perhaps you could trade with some one who could use it or even sell it.

I've often heard shooters say I'd rather have CASH. The drawback with CASH is that with all the divisions and categories only about 50% of the shooters will receive anything. This is based on HOA $1000 for Open & Limited and $500 for Prod & Lim 10. And $500 for Rev. if there are at least 3 entered. And then 1st, 2nd, & 3 in class in each division at apx $350, $250, $100. If any money is left over then it would be distributed by order of finish.

What about the trophies? There's another $5000 spent!

Please respond to this and let us know what you want.

[Fireant]

How about drop the match fee back down to a reasonable amount? I enjoy the match, but the entry fee is getting steep.

[DaBlaster]

Well I know the Trophies are several Thousands less then that,

Not sure where you got your info,

but you might wanna check with Frank for the finer details.

[shred]

I think at Fla Open in particular, class-based cash-prizes are not the way to go, given the large number of foriegn shooters with unintentionally low USPSA classifications.

[cking]

IMHO have four classes, Open, Limited, production, Revolver.

Then assign the top shooter in each class 100%.

Then do the precentages to find the divisons winners GM, M, A, B,C,D don't go by posted classification I know too many sandbaggers.

How to balance a prize table to cash is diffcult. Maybe something like cash limited to entry fee cost. Distribute it equally among winners. So there would be 6 division times 4 class which equal 24 people get there match fee back. Then if there more money left, 2nd place gets 1/2 fee back third get 1/4 Until the money is gone. For prize table. Take the 6 class winners and have a drawing to see who goes to the table first, second etc. Repeat for second place until all prizes are gone.

That should eliminate sandbaggers, and keep the B C D division shooters from feeling like they are supporting the GM,M,A 's.

So that way lots of people would get some money, and lots of people would go to the prize table. Also the sandbaggers would not get rewarded.

[Cameron]

I go to shoot, not to win prizes. Lower match fee, no prize table, no cash, just a nice trophy for the effort put into winning.

[Carmoney]

I agree. I was a little disappointed to see that the entry fee went up from last year. It's a great match, but $200 is pretty stiff. For those of us flying in, it winds up being a pretty expensive weekend....

Also, I know it sounds a little self-serving, but I sure would like to see a greatly-reduced entry fee for junior shooters. I was hoping to bring Sam along with me next Feb., but man, I just don't think we can justify the cost.

Mike

[proff]

It's been a great match the two years I have attended but the fee was steep before it went up. I would like to see a much lower fee, juniors free or substantially reduced fee, and trophies only. The economics of the situation is there is a lot of demand even with the high fees. There will be many more shooters turned away because of a full match if the fees are lowered. What about adding an extra day and having lower fees? I would like to take my son Teepy, but like Sam's dad, it's a bit steep for us at the current rate.

Terry

[Gun Phan]

Lower match fee and reduce the huge trophies to less expensive plaques (glad I had friend driving from Texas, other wise I would have to buy another plane ticket to bring it back). I guess Texas is not the only state where everything is BIG .

I like the prize table format for 2004 Area 2.

[gmshtr]

This is something that I have felt strongly about since Frank's match started. Frank, being a great friend of mine, will always be able to get my honest opinion...as long as he asks. BUT, since the suggestion box is open...here we go!

The Florida Open is THE best 10-stage match in the country, probably the world. This is what brings the shooters back, not the prizes. Case and point: The prize table at the Florida Open has been bad for the last 4 years, and just keeps getting worse...but the match seems to be filling faster and faster.

Here's a solution: Lower the match fee down to $125-$150 and run it like the FIPT used to be done. Cash prizes to match and division winners. Tables could be available to vendors/sponsors for reasonable cash amounts. BUT, as long as the Florida Open is run as a profit match, then this can never happen. And why should it? If the match is filling up EVERY year, then why take money out of the match's pocket to pay back more to the shooters?

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem if the match fee was lowered to $75 and made into a plaque match...but...let's do the math: $75 X 400 compared to $200 X 400.

If profit were a motivating factor, then it wouldn't make sense to change anything until attendance started to decline, and that doesn't seem to be happening yet.

DOLLA DOLLA BILLS YAALLLLL!

Phil

[folsoml]

Extend trophies out to at least 2nd and 3rd place. Even if they have to be smaller. I shoot for a law enforcement pistol team, and a plaque--even a small one--goes a long way towards showing the boss why he is spending all this money on a team. Just a little something to put in his trophy case makes him happy. I took 2nd C class limited ten this year, but there was only an award for High C--even though there were 11 people in this class.

[TeamGE]

Move the match date to some other weedend, so we don't have to compete with the Daytona 500. Airfare, car rental, and hotel costs are all inflated on that weekend. This is where the real costs of shooting this match comes from. Match fees are the least of my worries. $150.00 is reasonable for entry.

[PaulW]

Hey Phil, rumor is FIPT may make a come back. Shhhhh!!!

[zhunter]

FIPT was before my time, what was it?

[WalterN]

I vote for no cash prize, no prize table and plaques instead of trophies. I did not shoot this match because of the high entry fee. The monster match held in the fall at the same range was a great match with a lot of shooting and had a much lower entry fee.

[Turtle]

Z,

Although I've never shot it, I heard the Florida Invitational Pistol Tournament was a great match. Back when they were still having it I was a C class shooter only dreaming of shooting matches like that. Mostly because at the time I just didn't have the time off from work available, or the money to pay for the matches. Like Beven said, when you add up the travel and lodging it's a pretty penny.

T

[hoodhazard]

Although I have not shot the Open,I wish I did.It seems to be very sucessfull! Why mess with what works?I have shot monthly matches and specialty matches at Franks place and I have never been disappointed.And learned more than I can remember.Keep up the Great Work MooCow!It doesn't get any better!

[ipsc1]

Trading prizes would be a good idea, if it wasn't so late by the time you get to that part. As someone who flew in, getting powder or primers is a bad thing. and then you have to find someone who didn't fly to even give the stuff away to. But the match was great.

[Still Praying]

OK guys here's my two cents worth.

This year was the first time I shot the Fl Open and it had to be the best shooting experience I have ever had. I have only shot about 12 big matches and this was by far the best. I couldn't stay that late for the awards and prizes like I normally would, but I still got my prize bag thanks to a close friend Bonnie.

I realy like the idea of trophies instead of plaques ( THIS IS A MAJOR MATCH )and prizes by drawing shooter numbers. I shot this match knowing I didn't have a snowballs chance in #*!! of winning B open. Even though I was on USPSA's top 20 list. Their are to many SANDBAGGERS and FOREIGNERS looking to grab the glory from the Americans to have realisticlly hoped for anything like 4th place. PROOF ? The winner of B class open Just so happens to be the same winner of A class Area 6 05 and the same one that came in 10th place overall on both matches. OH WAIT! He would have been 4th master in both matches and beat 2 GM's and 20 M's in this match and 2 GM's and 19 M's in the Area 6 05 match. Master or Grand Master? We may never know.

Someone needs to address this problem before we become known as members of the UNITED STATES PRACTICAL SANDBAGGERS ASSOCIATION. So, I didn't shoot the match for the money or prizes. I shot it hoping for the match of a lifetime AND I GOT JUST THAT. $1000 + well spent.

I hope they don't ban me from BE for the bad word sandbagger or close this thread because of it. I just hope the right one see's this and does something about this problem. Great match Frank I'll be there next year if they let me stay in USPSA.

Ronnie A-44415

[Al Stewart JM]

Hello Ron,

I also attended my first Florida Open this year, and agree that it was an excellent match.

Our club is also concerned about the "sandbagger" issue, and for our part we have taken steps to address it with some of our own shooters. The shooter that you have singled out had requested to be bumped into "A" class before the Area 6; it is significant to note that his overall score at the Area 6 was 77.56%, which is not unreasonable for an "A" class shooter. We will make our best efforts to ensure that our members have a current classification.

However, I wonder why the results for this match are not entered into the classification system, as it should be a sanctioned match and it certainly is supported by several GM's in the Open and Limited divisions. Surely there is enough coin in the entry fee to pay USPSA the required tournament sanctioning?

Very best regards from Jamaica, DVC!

(TYF-41331) Al. Stewart

[CRubio]

Hello Al,

First, Welcome to the forum.

My understanding for the reason the results from Frank's match are not posted on USPSA is that the match is not sanctioned by USPSA.

Having been one to voice my opinion in the past concerning the placing at major matches by foreign shooters. I will also now acknowledge the fact that several of the members of the Jamaican Shooting Team have voluntarily gone to USPSA and had themselves bumped to the next class. I have not issue at all with an 'A' class shooter winning his class with a 77% score.

I have had three members of that team sign up for the Ga. State match already. I hope the rest of you will decide to come up as well.

Regards,

Carlos

[J.L. Hardy]

Guys, we all know the classification system is what it is. That was not the question asked. Obviously the question asked is how to better serve the many shooters who enjoy shooting this high quality match. The suggestion I would have is to either do away with the prizes all together or do a random prize give away on Saturday night. The biggest complaint I have is how late it gets on Sunday night waiting around for the awards and prize table. The prize table has become pretty much a random give away as it is and that part could be taken care of on Saturday night. Lots of other quality matches just do awards and cash paybacks based on the number of shooters in a given class/division making that option fair as well. Prizes are not what we really enjoy anyway. We really enjoy this type of high quality match and seeing where we finish up in relation to all the other guys there, no matter where they are from. Good shooting

[PaulW]

Well said J.L. and I totally agree wih everything you said.

[RKooi]

My understanding for the reason the results from Frank's match are not posted on USPSA is that the match is not sanctioned by USPSA.

The results for the FL Open are under major match results. They were there in 2004 as well and the match has been a point series match both years.

I agree with JL. The classification system is not perfect but it usually does what it was intended to do. When you come to a match the size of Frank's or the Nats etc. there is more competition, plain and simple. You will have some folks that the system has not caught up to yet. In the case of some international competitors it may never catch up unless they shoot alot of USPSA sanctioned matches.

Sorry for the drift; I say do away with the prize table. In its current state it takes way too long and is basically random anyway (take a bag and go...)

[CRubio]

My understanding for the reason the results from Frank's match are not posted on USPSA is that the match is not sanctioned by USPSA.

The results for the FL Open are under major match results. They were there in 2004 as well and the match has been a point series match both years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was addressing the fact that the results from Frank's match are not entered as a classifier. I still believe that the match is not sanctioned by USPSA but I guess a better answer may well be that Frank is not submitting the results of the match to USPSA as this would be an additional cost. (Not that a couple of dollars per shooter from the $200 entry fee would seem unreasonable but.... )

My vote is also for getting rid of the prize table and maybe pay down a couple more places in order of finish per class.

Carlos