J.L. Hardy

The only fix for this will be to weld up the face of the frame cut and recut. Chances are, if you had a new barrel installed, you would have to do this to properly fit the new one. If the current barrel has no damage itself, a reweld and recut would be the most cost effective repair. I believe barsto barrels are the only ones with oversized impact lugs. If it is a wilson/nowlin ramp then it can be properly recut for a clark/para for the simplest fix with a new barrel. .

Feederic, What I do to reliably shoot factory length 40 without having the gun tuned (assuming that it works just fine with long length ammo) is to use the spacers and grams followers and springs that we use in the 9mm guns. I highly recommend that shooters who do not reload and only shoot store bought ammo go this route. It might not be something you want to do for a few boxes of ammo though, due to cost.

Saffer, I just sent Chuck (Shooters Connection) a supply of 140 length spacers. If you already have the 170's you could get one from him and use it to cut off those. As far as the question about adjusting the tube for follower tip over- I have never adjusted the ribs on any of the tubes I have tuned. This seems to be something done to 140 mags to get a longer basepad on so it will hold 23 or 24 rounds. I recommend just going with big sticks for this and no tube bending is needed. If you use the +1 base pads from Dawson the ribs do not cause an issue because the stack up of the compressed spring takes the follower higher than the bottom of the ribs. Arrendondo makes a spacer that has a section on the bottom that folds around to take up this space if you really need to use the longer basepads. I think Chuck carries them as well. The reason that I prefer the stainless ones over the polymer ones is the battering that occurs at the top of the spacer behind the top round. When they first changed the rule allowing the 9x19 loaded to factory length, I made the spacers out of delrin and they would just get flattened out and start contacting the disconnector rail on the bottom of the slide after repeated use. Arrendondo and Sti started making them as well out of a similar material and I tried them and had the same results. I just went to stainless and this didn't happen anymore.

Guys, I designed and build the stainless spacers sold at CPWSA and Shooters Connection. Dave Dawson also uses my spacers that are supplied through Shooters Connection. I highly discourage the use of anything being used to adhere these to the mag. They need to be pulled out when the mag is cleaned. They are also designed to have clearance to slide about 15 to 20 thousandths up and down. They do not rattle around when the mag is loaded. They are made to be used with Dawson +1 basepads. The only thing that needs to be done to them is the edge that mates with the back side of the mag could be beveled as needed to lay flat in some mags. I recommend the use of Grams 9mm followers and springs. If you use other base pads that are longer or shorter than the Dawsons then you will have to shorten either the 170 spacers or in some cases the 140's. STI and SV mags usually just drop in on the 140 and 170 length mags, although the lengths have varied slightly over the years and sometimes to require fitting on length to get the spacer to have the needed few thousandths of free play up and down.jlh

Guys, I don't know of any gun that the round of ammunition has a straight path into the chamber, with the exception of single shots where the round is placed in the chamber by hand. There may be some, but I am not aware of them or have seen them. Take a look at an AR m-4 ramp. It has small ramps at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock, meaning the round comes in at not only a up and down angle, but also with a left or right angle added in. 1911's come in with mostly a up and down angle and get wedged into the chamber with the slide pushing forward on the round and the wedge action shoving the base of the cartridge up the breachface and under the extractor hook. The nose of the bullet, at about 6 o'clock on the nose itself, hits the barrel or frame ramp and then hits the top side of the bullet as it enters the chamber at about 12 o'clock more on the top side of the bullet. The round may actually turn slightly as the base of the case rim slides under the extractor going up the breachface. As stated previously Plated bullets are softer than jacketed bullets. They will show dents. Plating has also been known to get sheared or scraped off as the bullet passes ports in the barrel of an open gun, if you have barrel ports. Plated bullets have also been shown to not like the high velocities reached with open guns and the firmer crimps sometimes used and will occasionally tumble. They, on the other hand, have proven to be quite useful in minor loads and limited type major rounds and save money over more expensive jacketed bullets. Get a good strong pair of reading glasses and some good lighting and look over the chamber carefully. If it is smooth and you cannot see any burrs or bumps don't obsess with dents in the bullets. Get some ammo loaded up and go shoot. If the gun is accurate be happy. If you are looking for an excuse to tell the wife that you need a new gun, that's your story and stick to it.

Dave, you are surely a lucky guy. I have seen and repaired too many to count. Especially back in the day when the rage was to put hybrid ports almost back to underneath the C-more. That is not as common these days but I still find many with the two back screws loose, even with red loctite being used. If a C-more flexes and touches the top of the slide it is mounted too low and the slide probably should be flat-topped to correct this issue. Of course your results might vary.

Ok, I will bite on this. Anybody that has known me for a while know my feelings on blast shields and other $69 gadgets that get sold to shooters who just have to get the latest trinket to stick on thinking the trinket will be the holy grail that improves their performance. If you take a soft cloth (t-shirts make good lens cloth) and wipe your lens off between stages, your lenses will stay clean, although I have seen some chips or marks from possibly jacket material that hits the lens. The Main things that I have problems with on the shields is that placing an object over the port transfers that very strong psi gas pressure directly to the c-more legs or mount. On the serendipity models the mounting screws work loose and the legs start developing cracks that originate from the holes molded into the legs and radiate towards the front mounting screws. I have also had the c-mores flex in such a way as to rub on the top of the slide. This shows up as a rub mark on the bluing or hard chrome on top of the slide and you can usually see the rub mark on the bottom of the c-more if you take it off and look. This will also cause the gun to have malfunctions when the slide is slowed down. They also crack frequently at the rear mounting screw holes. Shifting of the zero indicates that something is moving around. I have had to cut the legs off numerous serendipity models and put them on metal mounts after they have had blast shields on them. When you use a blast shield on a slide ride c-more and use a one sided mount, the mounting screws frequently work loose, even when you use red locktite. I have also had to replace a few of the one sided aluminum mounts after they developed cracks where the flat top (where the cmore mounts) meets the side at the front of the mount. I have seen this on several different brands of these mounts. The only one that I,so far, have not seen crack is the mounts from Brazos. If you look at the mount, it has a nice radius underneath the shelf where it meets the side instead of a sharp corner. They are the only one sided mount that I have used for a long time, but someone else may be making theirs with the radius now. The original Alchin blast shield mounts frequently showed up with the cracks I am talking about. Don't get me wrong, open guns are open guns and this pretty much allows us to put what we want on them as long as we don't exceed the max mag length and I think this is good. Some parts on them are consumable and need maintenance or replacing from time to time, c-mores and mounts shouldn't be in this category though. I just think that most shooters could benefit more from proper instruction on technique, dry fire practice, live fire practice and shooting matches than from purchasing every $69 gadget that comes along. I keep referring to $69 because for a long time every one of these widgets was priced at $69. There are several items that have come from the process of shooters experimenting with their open guns that are almost essential and definitely provide competitive or functional advantages like slide rackers and thumb safety shields. Dot sights,comps and ports were all a part of this process and we wouldn't consider a gun to be open class without them. Most of the true performance innovations do not cause failure of other parts or systems on the gun.

Guys, it always intrigues me that when a discussion arises about hammer springs the only two concerns mentioned is whether it affects trigger pull and ignition reliability. No one ever mentions that the hammer spring and recoil spring work in conjunction to control slide velocity, timing and lock up pressure. The hammer spring applies much more pressure when the slide is closed than the recoil spring does. To prove this just rack your slide once with the hammer cocked and once with the hammer down. I point this out to make sure that everyone understands that the recoil spring and the hammer spring work as a system that we must consider when making changes. I am not saying that things will automatically self destroy if you make a change, but these type of changes can cause reliability issues, increased wear and tear and in general changes to the system that has been developed for optimum performance of that system.

Another option that I checked against a couple new frames I have is the Chip McCormick grip safeties, I had several on hand and 4 frames. I swapped them all around and each one fitted very nicely to the frames. I do taper in the sides of the tails when I blend the safeties much like the STI ones and they have to be chromed or finished with the frames as they only come blue not stainless as far as I know. I stopped using the STI ones because I ran into issues with the fit on the left side of the frame, sort of like the grip safety was made off center somewhat.

You should take a look at your loaded rounds and make sure that you didn't bend the case rim. If so you may experience some feeding issues on the bent ones. The ones that stuck are probably the ones to be concerned with. I had this happen for the same reason a long time ago.

You definitely must have the accu-rails installed first then the barrel. Consider getting Doug Jones do them and maybe even get him to do the barrel fit as well. What happens is that the accu-rails pull the slide down on the frame. This causes the lower lugs to be cut shorter. That is fine but it leads to another issue. Para frames are notorious for having the ramp barrel cut made very long where the rounded barrel lug comes to rest on the frame bridge during cycling. It is essential that the barrel lug stop the rearward travel of the barrel with good contact and not the barrel link or pin being used for that purpose. When you pull the slide down, this leads to a shorter link being used. You may need for the frame cut to be welded up and then re-cut to the proper distance for the new link.

That will also result in a sheared link pin ultimately.

A barrel links only job is to pull the barrel down during the rearward cycle of the slide and barrel. The frame bridge should stop the rearward travel of the barrel and the lower barrel lugs push the barrel back up into lockup on the forward cycle. If a barrel link stretches and breaks or if a link pin shears there is a problem with the timing and either link length or frame bridge dimension. When everything is cut properly and the link properly sized there is very little stress on a link. Sad thing is that when this type of failure occurs there is a lot of damage to the recesses in the slide and upper lugs on the barrel, sometimes even before the link breaks because the link stretches and finally breaks.

If you get it, pm me here with your e-mail address and I will try and find my users information sheet that I provide with my guns. Short guns are not for everyone and the 9mm round isn't either. I think if those two things are in your favor, you can't get much better.

And the last line.

I can tell you from the previous posts that the old saying applies: Too many cooks in the kitchen! Read the last paragraph in my instruction sheet again and again.

Just a few pieces of info on the Commander open guns. For replacement recoil springs: Go to Wolf’s website and order. The address is www.gunsprings.com Click on the logo to enter, on the next page click I have read this after reading their warning. At the bottom of the next page will be folder tabs, choose the one for semi auto pistols. On the following page choose Colt from the area of the left margin. On the next screen make sure you choose Commander Series Pistols. From this screen order the following stock numbers. 42509 for 9lb, 42508 for 8lb, and for minor loads only order 42507 for 7lb. I use a 19lb hammer spring. Occasionally I will use a 17lb, but if any light hammer strikes occur I immediately switch to the 19lb. NEVER USE ANY SHOCK BUFFS IN THESE GUNS. The stroke of the gun is already as short as can be used reliably. Shock buffs are unnecessary. Make sure to get a 22 cal. Brass brush on a pistol rod to clean out the extractor tunnel. I do this on a fairly frequent basis due to the amount of residue that collects in this area . Your cocking handle uses a ball detent to secure it in place making it very easy to put a paperclip in the guide rod and pull the handle to remove the top end for cleaning. I probably only break down the bottom end once every 3 to 4 months when I’m shooting regularly to clean, but because it is so easy with the cocking handle detented, I clean the top end and upper part of the frame pretty frequently Use a light oil to lubricate no grease. As far as Loads go. I always recommend use of the slowest possible powder. These guns are set up to run at about 170 to 172 power factor with slow powder to shoot the very best. I personally use Vectan SP2 because I bought a lot of it when it was available. If you get a chance to purchase some you should get all you can, because I find it to perform the best. VV 3n38 is virtually identical and uses the same charge weight (not charge volume) and I believe it is the best readily available powder you can get, period. On all loads I use same headstamp brass, I prefer Federal (FC), or Remington Plain brass if you can get it and Nickel as a second choice. All loads should be loaded using Small Rifle Primers no exception. You should make sure your dies size the brass down to hold the bullets firmly and use only a slight crimp. All loads should be loaded to a length of 1.155 inch and a Maximum of 1.160 inch. You should use MTG 124 JHPs or Zero 125 JHPs sized for 9mm (.355) *****Very Important***** Order a Stainless 9mm case gage (part #B63-15161) from Dillon Immediately. All ammo must be gaged and to pass must fall all the way in the gage and fall out without help. If it sticks in any way put the round aside in a container and use for chronoing or practice. If the rounds fall into and out of the gage like described they absolutely will fit in the guns tight chamber. Loaded as described above you can use the following charge weights to start. You should be in the ball park to start. 9.1 grains of both VV 3n38 and SP2. VVN350 will work and be extremely consistent and accurate, but will give a much sharper recoil impulse, at 7.8 grains (it is a slightly compressed load). Use a chrono and Adjust charge weight to get 170-172 power factor. I know that you can experiment and search for other loads that will fire out of the gun, but the loads I have listed above give the best performance out of these guns. ******If you decide to go with some of the loads that you will find, you can expect that some powders that are used by others are much too fast and can cause brass to stick in the chamber and hamper proper ejection of rounds and possibly damage the gun.****** For a minor load I have found that Zero 115 JHPs loaded with 6.8 grains of VV N340 Is a very nice load. You can also use CCI blazer or Winchester white box ammo for minor loads but you may have to use the 7lb spring to get proper ejection. If you get a light load it may not eject very far out of the gun. Another question that usually comes up is Magazine selection. It makes no difference if you use STI or SV mags. They are both good mags. You must use mags with Spacers, period, to work reliably. The mags supplied with the gun are properly set up. If you want more mags set up properly just send them to me and I will tune them for you. This would include fitting the stainless spacers, fitting a Grams follower and spring, and tuning the feed lips to proper dimensions. Buy some extra Grams mag springs from Chris Paty at CPWSA and swap out the original ones as needed. I use the full springs in both length mags. I only load 20 rounds in the 140’s and whatever I can get in the 170 (usually 28) Please do not do any home gunsmithing on the gun. Call me first. There are some things that I will be glad to help you with over the phone, but most work should be done by me to insure proper function. You should only have to do normal maintenance and cleaning for the gun to function properly. The great thing about sending a gun out hard chromed is that I can tell if someone else works on it, because they have to remove the finish to remove metal. Please don’t let your range buddies or a gunsmith unfamiliar with the operation of this type gun convince you to make changes to the gun. Please call me if you have further questions. 706-346-6469

The first Tru-bore barrels that I used had a very small ridge that was left in the very end of the chamber. This was due to the 9mm being a tapered case (and the reamer for it) and the barrel being short chambered for 38 super (straight wall case). I showed this to Chris at STI and I believe that they made an adjustment to the short chamber to accomodate this. I have not had any issues in quite a while with this. It really was no problem because I just cleaned up the ridge with a 38 super reamer. Both use the same diameter bullets and the case mouth thickness is nominally the same. The Tru-Bore barrel is a good choice. Just keep in mind that you have one chance to cut the slide to the right length. You can't just turn the comp one more thread and recut.

John, our thoughts are with you. We all are in a less pleasant World without Debi. JLH

Guys, I think I will say my piece on this subject. First, a little history. Back in the day when we used plain old 38 super for our open guns we learned that by using round nose bullets and loading long we were able to get the nose of the bullet on the feed ramp to get it going in the chamber. This helped to overcome the semi-rimmed case that wanted to nose dive as soon as the slide came into contact with the base of the cartridge. By loading this way and getting the nose of the bullet on the feed ramp we were able to get very good reliability. Although we really still couldn't use very light recoil springs. Then came along better brass in the form of MMC, Super comp and TJ and the Oal was not as critical, we could use light springs and we forgot some of the earlier lessons. Then came along 40 S&W in limited, Guess what, we learned that most 1911 pattern guns liked it loaded long to prevent nose dives and increase reliability. Factory length ammo may work in your 40 gun, but it may not when the mag springs get a little wear on them. Now we are discussing the need to have spacers in mags for 9x19mm. Even though the case is rimless it is tapered with the base being larger than the neck. The short case really doesn't lend itself to loading to 38 super lengths unless you use heavy bullets. So using 124 grain bullets pretty much means that you load about 1.160 or shorter. The Sti mags don't support the case all the way out to the end just before the bullet on the sides and the SVI mags do. This means that the Svi mags stack the rounds better without the spacers And Sti mags need the spacers to move the round forward so that it is supported on the sides and stacks properly. Also the current batch of Sti mags have very wide feed lips and must be tuned unless you are lucky. SV mags generally have nice tight feed lips. So for sti mags the spacer cures a problem unique to that mag and the SV is built differently and doesn't have the same problem. What the spacers really do for us is put the nose of the bullet closer to the feed ramp and increases reliability in feeding regardless of which mag tube you use. This same concept works very well for 40 S&W , if you shoot only factory length ammo. I know that several folks have reported good reliability with SV mags and no spacers and all I can say about that is that they were lucky and very good for them. I like SV mags too but I still use the spacers. Using the spacers I have not had a single issue with Feeding and I very seldom change my mag springs. Now, Ejection on the 9x19mm is another matter altogether and is also very different from the other cases and would need to be dealt with in another topic.

Try putting your slide stop in the frame and using your calipers to measure from the slide stop to the impact face on the frame cut. If the measurement exceeds .500 inch then you probably have a ramp that is over cut. Now there are some barrels that can use a cut over .500 but you have to decide after properly fitting the barrel to the slide and selecting the barrel link. Shorter links require a shorter measurement to the impact face and longer links require a longer measurement. If a ramp has been overcut then replacing a wilson/nowlin with a clark/para is a good option. Just make sure that whoever does it know how to measure the same way and starts at about .575 inch and can bump it back .005 at a time after the proper link is selected until the barrel cams down properly and comes to rest on the impact face of the frame cut.

I have several leftys that I have built open guns for and with the small window of opportunity to eject between the bottom of the c-more and the left thumb it is very challenging to get everything tuned just right and any change in power factor or spring rates, either the recoil spring or the hammer spring, effects ejection. From what I see in your picture you shoot non-open guns and it appears that you could adjust the ejector nose angle slightly to eject the brass up instead of to the side and cure your problem. Some of the guys I work with do get the nicks and powder residue on the thumb and a couple of others never notice it, but as I am watching them I can see their thumb start to straighten up as they shoot. In practice when they are thinking about keeping the thumb down there is no problem but in the heat of the moment, when they are concentrating on engaging the targets, that thumb starts sticking up. I have even offered to trim the first joint or so off for them. Another thing that helps is a shielded thumb safety like a swenson that has the shield trimmed so that it is slightly below the ejection port when the slide is back, it will give you something to rest your thumb on and applying pressure to the thumb shield will actuall help with recoil control. If you do so without the thumbshields, you end up riding the slide and causing the type malfunctions you describe as well.

Major9er, Eric is most likely right on the money. Please be careful if you follow Jon's advise and don't be looking in the ejection port while pulling slide back with extra force. Especially if you are doing this at the range with live ammo. Occasionally doing this will allow the ejector to strike the primer and you get a kaboom. Be careful. If you feel uncomfortable adjusting the ejector, please take it to a gunsmith. It will only take 30 thousandths or so to shorten it enough to clear. Also, sometimes if you use a bullet with a different nose profile they will come out. For instance the nose of a Montanna Gold jhp is more pointed than a Zero jhp. Good luck.

Modifications to a standard frame to convert to Officers length is exactly the same as with a commander length. You can get a caspian frame for both if you call Gary at Caspian.

Dave, You are correct. If you don't use a commander specific barrel you generally have to modify the guide rod head so that there is no contact when the barrel comes out of battery.