phoenixsomd Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I have an older IPSC Standard (forerunner to the TS). I'm trying to figure out the dimensions of its bushing to verify if CGW's TS bushing will fit. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. The AUS barrel protrudes further out than the stock barrel and changes the contour. Doesn't seem to be an issue there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. The AUS barrel protrudes further out than the stock barrel and changes the contour. Doesn't seem to be an issue there. I would imagine because it is a factory variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 So isn't the Accu-Shadow. Why isn't it legal to install the factory bushing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. I don't know about your CZ's but my (3) CZ85Combats, Rami, P01 & my 1985 CZ75 all protrude from the slide and all by different amounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. I don't know about your CZ's but my (3) CZ85Combats, Rami, P01 & my 1985 CZ75 all protrude from the slide and all by different amounts. And none like the 10X bushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. The AUS barrel protrudes further out than the stock barrel and changes the contour. Doesn't seem to be an issue there. I would imagine because it is a factory variant. The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. The AUS barrel protrudes further out than the stock barrel and changes the contour. Doesn't seem to be an issue there. I would imagine because it is a factory variant. Exactly. If the AUS shares an SKU with another CZ on the USPSA/NROI Production Gun List, it is a factory option, and that is why it is legal. On the other hand, if it does NOT share an SKU, if it has its own SKU, and it is not in the NROI Production gun list, it is NOT production legal, by the rules, much like my 75 Shadowline, which I would very much like to shoot in Production, but can't, IF I want to follow the rules, which I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 IDescribe Please show me the SKU number of the factory part the X10 replaces. And, it does not change the demensions of the slide, not one bit, the barrel still protrudes beyond the bushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkim Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Here is a TECHNICAL question for you gentlemen. Background is that I am trying to tailor my CZ TS and CZ SP-01 Shadow for 3 gun. I put the 10x bushings in both. I am not sure but it does seem like the groups tightened, however both pistols impact shifted left about 3.5" at 10 yards! Nice groups, just left of poa. I have the adjustable rear on my TS and that remedied it very quickly, so I ordered a Shadow adjustable rear to install as well. My question is,... Does this indicate a problem or that I have done something incorrectly and if so how should I remedy it? Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks Edit: both are 9mm Edited March 17, 2016 by craigkim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsoncustom Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Please show me the SKU number of the factory part the X10 replaces There is no SKU for the bushing from Cz-usa that I can tell you as I have contacted them before about the stock bushing. You can't buy a stock replacement bushing from the factory the gun has to be sent in, the reason they claim is each gun and bushing are different and must be fitted by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amstaffer Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 This kind of goofey bs is why I dropped out of competative shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tok36 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Here is a TECHNICAL question for you gentlemen. Background is that I am trying to tailor my CZ TS and CZ SP-01 Shadow for 3 gun. I put the 10x bushings in both. I am not sure but it does seem like the groups tightened, however both pistols impact shifted left about 3.5" at 10 yards! Nice groups, just left of poa. I have the adjustable rear on my TS and that remedied it very quickly, so I ordered a Shadow adjustable rear to install as well. My question is,... Does this indicate a problem or that I have done something incorrectly and if so how should I remedy it? Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks Edit: both are 9mm This dose not appear to be uncommon. I have seen quite a few people mention POI shifts after installation of the CGW 10x bushing. This makes sense, if the barrel to bushing fitment is tighter than factory it is not surprising that the POI at lockup might change. Edited March 17, 2016 by Tok36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 I would think there was a problem if it DIDN'T change. All of mine have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarr Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I would have to say if... POI shifted 3 inches at 10 yards... (A) the new bushing is not centered ( the hole is off center in relationship to the OD) or ( the bushing is not centered in the gun ... I would expect a little shift... But that seems extremely excessive ... That much movement at 10 yards would equate to somewhere around .021 (ruff math based on sight adjustments to move POI that much) of barrel shift.... Question ??? When you adjusted the sights did they move more centered ??? If so ... Is it possible the production bushing was that far off ??? Or did the tolerances stack (Meaning partially because of the factory bushing and partially because of the 10X bushing) ??? Things that make me go Hmmmm .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkim Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I would have to say if... POI shifted 3 inches at 10 yards... (A) the new bushing is not centered ( the hole is off center in relationship to the OD) or ( the bushing is not centered in the gun ... I would expect a little shift... But that seems extremely excessive ... That much movement at 10 yards would equate to somewhere around .021 (ruff math based on sight adjustments to move POI that much) of barrel shift.... Question ??? When you adjusted the sights did they move more centered ??? If so ... Is it possible the production bushing was that far off ??? Or did the tolerances stack (Meaning partially because of the factory bushing and partially because of the 10X bushing) ??? Things that make me go Hmmmm .... My thoughts exactly. The rear is right of center to compensate. How would younaddress it? Im thinking about tapping the right side with a dowel to see if it changes. Maybe they both seated further on the left side? Strange that this would happen nearly the same on both pistols though.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarr Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Seems really strange ... I would think if the bushing was not seated flush in the slide that it would be in a bind... Is the bushing extending the same side vs side from the nose of the slide? Is there any signs of wear on any side of the barrel? I think I would remove it ... Examine it carefully... Make sure everything is very clean and reinstall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpa5oh Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 The following is what I sent in my email: A company called Cajun Gun Works has brought a replacement barrel bushing for the CZ Shadow to market. It is NOT like the CZ Accushadow bushing, which is a 1911-like bushing that to install it requires machine work. This replacement bushing just goes in place of the stock barrel bushing - friction fit being held in place by the front sight pin, same as the stock bushing. The rim that shows on the end of the muzzle is a little different than the stock bushing, but not much different. The benefit of it is that it *supposedly* keeps the barrel tighter to the slide when a shot is fired, which the seller says is supposed to improve accuracy...pretty much the same effect that gunsmith fit barrels for Glocks, for example, are supposed to have. [/size] Would this replacement barrel bushing be legal for a gun used in the Production division? Thank you! And there is the trick. The fact that the stock bushing doesn't protrude from the slide while the 10X bushing does is an important detail that was omitted. It doesn't just show and look a little different. It lengthens the pistol and changes the contour. How far out does it protrude? Can't be more than 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch, can it? (Barely protrudes at all out of the end of my Tactical Sport.) On a similar note, I wonder why Cajun didn't try to make the exterior look exactly like the stock one - the ID of it inside the slide is what provides the tighter barrel fit, not the lip that sticks out of the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) I would have to say if... POI shifted 3 inches at 10 yards... (A) the new bushing is not centered ( the hole is off center in relationship to the OD) or ( the bushing is not centered in the gun ... I would expect a little shift... But that seems extremely excessive ... That much movement at 10 yards would equate to somewhere around .021 (ruff math based on sight adjustments to move POI that much) of barrel shift.... Question ??? When you adjusted the sights did they move more centered ??? If so ... Is it possible the production bushing was that far off ??? Or did the tolerances stack (Meaning partially because of the factory bushing and partially because of the 10X bushing) ??? Things that make me go Hmmmm .... My thoughts exactly. The rear is right of center to compensate. How would younaddress it? Im thinking about tapping the right side with a dowel to see if it changes. Maybe they both seated further on the left side? Strange that this would happen nearly the same on both pistols though.....? I have installed 5 of these so far and each gun changed POI between 1" and 1.75" up on the target. So far I have not had to do and windage adjustments. I think a re-shoot may be in order if both guns did exactly the same. 3" at 10 yards is extreme. I have had those days too only to find out later I was not holding the gun level because of the lighting conditions or just didn't pay attention. Please let us know what you find out as this is really interesting. Edited March 19, 2016 by bowenbuilt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 How far out does it protrude? Can't be more than 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch, can it? (Barely protrudes at all out of the end of my Tactical Sport.) About a 16th of an inch? That doesn't really matter, though. It's a visible external part. There's no rule in the rulebook that authorizes it as an approved external part, so it's not legal. And how much it protrudes, the exact shape, whether or not it has a publicly available SKU, whether or not it shows up on a parts diagram, whether or not it shares similarities with other parts that are approved -- none of that is relevant. If it were legal, there would be a sentence in the rulebook that says "Aftermarket barrel bushings that do not protrude from the slide more than 0.100 inches further than the stock bushing and that do not require milling of the slide are permitted." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 How far out does it protrude? Can't be more than 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch, can it? (Barely protrudes at all out of the end of my Tactical Sport.) About a 16th of an inch? That doesn't really matter, though. It's a visible external part. There's no rule in the rulebook that authorizes it as an approved external part, so it's not legal. And how much it protrudes, the exact shape, whether or not it has a publicly available SKU, whether or not it shows up on a parts diagram, whether or not it shares similarities with other parts that are approved -- none of that is relevant. If it were legal, there would be a sentence in the rulebook that says "Aftermarket barrel bushings that do not protrude from the slide more than 0.100 inches further than the stock bushing and that do not require milling of the slide are permitted." Let me do some math for you, 1/16th is 0.0625", far less than 0.100", as a matter of fact it's 37.75% less! Using your argument, how much more does the X10 stick out than the OEM bushing? The OEM bushing sticks out from the slide too, so what is the amount of difference from the OEM to the X10? Are we down to 1/64th, which is 0.01562"???? You seem to know a lot about it, so what are the numbers? And why are you proposing rules? Are you the DNROI or on the BoD? Mountain -----> Molehill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I think you missed his point. The numbers don't matter. It's not legal because of the current rules I don't see him proposing any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtecpaoche Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Let me do some math for you, 1/16th is 0.0625", far less than 0.100", as a matter of fact it's 37.75% less! Using your argument, how much more does the X10 stick out than the OEM bushing? The OEM bushing sticks out from the slide too, so what is the amount of difference from the OEM to the X10? Are we down to 1/64th, which is 0.01562"???? You seem to know a lot about it, so what are the numbers? And why are you proposing rules? Are you the DNROI or on the BoD? Mountain -----> Molehill I think there's an open question to the DNROI. Your case needs to be made to him. Arguments on the forum about how insignificant the change is will not change the case. You should plead your case to DNROI about it. It would not hurt your case if more people reached out to him. The DNROI is very responsive. If the DNROI determines that it is legal, he will make his call. If you feel you are in the right, just shoot it with the new bushing. You don't need the approval of the people here. It's the job of the match officials to catch you. That's why the chrono stages at big matches have all these tools to enforce the rules. In all honesty, will this bushing really make that much of a difference though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Let me do some math for you, 1/16th is 0.0625", far less than 0.100", as a matter of fact it's 37.75% less! Using your argument, how much more does the X10 stick out than the OEM bushing? The OEM bushing sticks out from the slide too, so what is the amount of difference from the OEM to the X10? Are we down to 1/64th, which is 0.01562"???? You seem to know a lot about it, so what are the numbers? And why are you proposing rules? Are you the DNROI or on the BoD? Mountain -----> Molehill I think there's an open question to the DNROI. Your case needs to be made to him. Arguments on the forum about how insignificant the change is will not change the case. You should plead your case to DNROI about it. It would not hurt your case if more people reached out to him. The DNROI is very responsive. If the DNROI determines that it is legal, he will make his call. If you feel you are in the right, just shoot it with the new bushing. You don't need the approval of the people here. It's the job of the match officials to catch you. That's why the chrono stages at big matches have all these tools to enforce the rules. In all honesty, will this bushing really make that much of a difference though? I don't have one, so I don't know, but guys that have tried them are showing gret results. I find it interesting that some on this thread are certain it changes the configuration etc... The photos I have seen certainly don't shot that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I installed the 10x bushing in my Lim-Minor/ESP gun this weekend. I wasn't expecting much of a difference but I was pleasantly surprised how nice the gun grouped, off hand at 20 yards. I shot a couple 10-11 round groups with the ammo boxes I had floating around in my range bag. Both groups used 124gr MG JHP's with mixed brass and likely Federal primers. One set used S1000 powder and I think the other was WST. I haven't shot much this winter, the wind was blowing (eyes watering), and I wasn't using any kind of rest. Both groups had some flyers but that was probably me. Long story short, the gun could probably group even better if I had the time, materials and patience. Edited March 21, 2016 by blind bat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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