evilbeef54 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) not really sure what section this belongs in, but here we go. I have a custom built 2011 40 cal Limited gun, STI frame, caspian slide, fusion bushing barrel. It runs like a champ, never has any issues. I am working on a load devolopment for it. I have a pretty descent load going right now, 4.9gr of WST, 1.180 OAL, xtreme 180 RNFP, federal match primers, it has a low PF of 165 and an average of 167 with 4 10 round strings on 2 different days. It has an ED in the low 20's and a SD of 7-9. Just need to get a little more buffer for temp changes/murphy's law rounds. here is the issue, at 10-15 yds im keeping a 2" (or less) group with 1ish second between shots free hand, but push that out to 25 yds slow fire and that group opens up to 6"+ with no consistent area, total shotgun pattern. with my duty sig 229 (3.9" barrel 40 cal, heavy as hell stock DAK trigger 6.5#) i was keeping a 2" group at 25 yds freehand with strings of 6 rounds 1-2 seconds between shots with my new to me open 2011 38 super comp i am keeping a sub 2"group at 25yds at speed I am totally willing to admit that it could just be me, however i have the followers set to not lock back the slide and i loaded the mags up randomly, when i dropped the hammer on an empty chamber the sights didnt bobble at all, stayed dead center. I also tried shooting seated with my wrists supported by bags with the same results. IF it isnt me i have read that it could be the ammo or the gun, but what do i check in regards to those. over the chrono the ammo is consistent, but i guess that might not mean much for accuracy. I'm new to the 1911/2011 game, what can i check with the fitment/etc of the gun. Edited January 29, 2016 by evilbeef54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Try it bench resting. Sounds like operator error. Try it with some factory ammo as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 You'll be amazed at how guns are very picky regarding ammo. Change the oal and charges randomly and keep good notes. Shoot from a support initially just to see if the loads group at all. Also, shoot through the chrono at the same time. This way you kill two birds with one stone. You may even notice the groups center of mass vary widely from one group to the next as well. Don't compensate for that until you pick the best load. Once you find the tightest group that chronos about 172 then change the sights to bring the group to point of aim. Then shoot the load freehand and make final sight adjustments as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnr88 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I had similar problems a couple of years ago with Extreme. I experimented and settled on 200 SNS - 4.1 Grains at 1.175 LOA. My 25 yd groups were about 3-4 inches which is my capability. Always used WST and various primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 what can i check? So many things ... As has been said, try benching it, slowly - If that doesn't solve the problem, change the bullet - lighter bullet might be more accurate. MG's might be more accurate. Try factory ammo Let someone else, who shoots well, shoot it ... BTW, 2" at 10 yards is not a great group ... Could be the crimp, or the OAL, or the powder. Experimentation is in order - and thankfully, a LOT of FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 awesome, thanks guys, I'm totally not ruling out operator error, I shoot my Sig every week and going back and forth between the two could be part of it, BUT with the size of the group, and the fact that it is a shotgun spread, not a grouped error zone leads me to think it isn't just operator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPatton Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 If you are shooting plated bullets the first thing I would do is pull a loaded bullet and if you can see a mark on it from the mouth of the case then load some with no mark and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 If you are shooting plated bullets the first thing I would do is pull a loaded bullet and if you can see a mark on it from the mouth of the case then load some with no mark and see what happens. You mean check to see if it is crimped too tight? I can check, but I am sure it isn't, I just crimped enough to knock out the bell, it is set to .42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trouble Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I loaded Xtreme bullets for a long time. Probably shot 30,000 180g, and always thought my groups were fine. I just figured it was the best accuracy me and my gun was capable of. Then I tried some 180 coated and my groups shrunk quite a bit. Haven't bought anymore Xtreme since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 I ordered a 100 pack of MG jhp, that is what I use in my open gun we will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Check with it rested - or with Ransom rest if you know of one. You can't really improve your accuracy if you don't have the firearm/ammunition as well as you can get it initially. If you know they are accurate, then you can tell what improvements you need to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 i tried shooting from a bench with my wrists supported on bags i didnt support the gun on anything, i can try again with the gun supported too, but like i said when i randomly loaded up the mag so i didnt know when it would go dry and dropped the hammer on an empty chamber the sights stayed perfectly lined up so that leads me to think that it may not totally be operator error since the sights appeared to hold steady with no flinching/jerking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjohn Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I was taught when shooting off of a bag to only rest your forearm and not the wrists or gun. Not saying it is right, but easy to try and see if that makes a difference. I know when shooting off of a bag, it is sometimes difficult to get the same alignment of the sights each time and that maybe the cause for the spread at 25yds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I was taught when shooting off of a bag to only rest your forearm and not the wrists or gun. I tried it about a year ago, and rested the gun, the mag base and me on the table/bag - it worked just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPatton Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I was taught when shooting off of a bag to only rest your forearm and not the wrists or gun. I tried it about a year ago, and rested the gun, the mag base and me on the table/bag - it worked just fine. You can shoot groups from a bag but you may not want to zero your gun from a bag because you MAY NOT have the same zero when off the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I own lots of guns, all have some group size disparity between Xtremes and MGs, the the degree of spread varies greatly; just yesterday I shot Xtremes through my KKM barreled gun and was shocked by the spread: 5-6" groups at 10 yards vs 1" with the MGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateTSU Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 So I have thought about this quite a bit, what is considered a good group for 25 yards from a bench? What should I expect from a glock 34 with reloads tailored to that pistol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddKS Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Get some jacketed bullets and see what they do. I also shot Xtremes for a number of years. Some of my guns just will not perform with the outside of 15 yards. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 what is considered a good group for 25 yards from a bench from a glock 34? I'd hope a nice 12 shot group would be in the 2.5 - 3" area, excluding 2-3 flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I found out as you did that plated bullets were not always accurate . Buy some coated and load them with the same load of WST and it should be about 170 of and I bet you will notice a difference in accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaulter Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I agree with others about the plated. Do NOT assume that one batch of bullets from the same maker will perform the same. I shot a 5 shot 5" group this morning at 50 yards unsupported. The middle of last year the same bullet was giving me fliers 18" away from poa at 25 yards!! Different lots of bullets. I'm going back to coated when I run out of plated. They always shoot great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaulter Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Double tap Edited February 13, 2016 by assaulter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 i tried shooting from a bench with my wrists supported on bags i didnt support the gun on anything, i can try again with the gun supported too, but like i said when i randomly loaded up the mag so i didnt know when it would go dry and dropped the hammer on an empty chamber the sights stayed perfectly lined up so that leads me to think that it may not totally be operator error since the sights appeared to hold steady with no flinching/jerking Try it like the best in the business does.. pause the video at 8 sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 given you can shoot a group at 25 yards with a duty gun and an open gun it makes sense that the issue is either with the limited gun or the ammo. given it's easier to play with the ammo solution I'd go down that path first. try some different bullets, different OAL etc. see if that will improve things. if nothing seems to work with ammo then you need to look at the barrel fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberacp Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 happen to me too, about a year ago. shot groups at 25 yds, off hand with 40sw/OAL 1.170/ 4.6 TG/.422 crimp...side by side....Zero then Extremes back and forth a few times, just to confirm to myself, at 25 yds. I haven't bought any Extremes since then. your choice. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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