Nimitz Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 9 stages and not a single uprange start, zero SHO/WHO & a lot of 20 yd mini poppers & partials? With an actual data point being provided here it looks like all the predictions of stage design being affected by PCC is actually starting to come true .... or possibly i'm just stirring up shiznit, but the MD did shoot PCC. to be honest tho, this match was setup as 2 matches over 2 days, limited, open and pcc on saturday, L10, SS and prod on sunday, same exact stages. Many different volunteer stage designers, only a couple of whom shot PCC, so i would probably not use this is a data point for anything except getting people riled up online. fwiw tho, this is a really really fun match format, and a valuable learning experience too, to be able to shoot the same stages with different equipment. Deny all you want ... The evidence speaks for itself .... . This is just the tip of the iceberg .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 IMO the whole 'nothing will change' is a strawman created by the anti-PCC crowd. I could care less whether matches 'change' or not. More precisely, I think continuous change is a healthy thing. Change is inevitable; sameness gets old. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 OK I'll say it, If your matches will get harder because of PCC your matches suck. It seems like the harder I make the shooting challenges the more shooters show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Make the stages as hard as you want. The harder the stages the better I believe I will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 IMO the whole 'nothing will change' is a strawman created by the anti-PCC crowd. I could care less whether matches 'change' or not. More precisely, I think continuous change is a healthy thing. Change is inevitable; sameness gets old. Get over it. Exactly change makes things more fun so we are not doing the same boring crap over and over again close in burner stuff constantly gets old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I find it interesting that the narrative among PCC supporters has gone from "stage design won't change" to "change is good and vital." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 You have that backwards. IIRC the 'narrative' you claim was a single statement made by someone long ago followed by a few anti-PCC'ers endlessly harping on it as if any change would be the downfall of USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightops Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Really it is more that stage design doesn't have to change to accommodate PCC. I hope you don't have to shoot the same 6 stages at your club match every month. I assume your MD puts some variety in there to keep it fresh. OMG that is change. But you probably see similar challenges presented, like tight partials, leans, SHO, WHO, etc. So far, nobody has come up with any challenge that can't stay in the match because of PCC. People can still even have their facing uprange starts, PCC will just start different. Since PCC is just shooting against PCC, it is a level playing field for them. Just like it doesn't matter that Open has a competitive advantage vs Production. Stages don't have to dumbed down for PCC to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Can you name any other division where changes to the stage are required for it to exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 What changes are you referring to, exactly? And, why should I care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 My favorite arguments to watch has been that PCC will make matches both Too hard and Too easy, Seems like you could argue one or the other but not both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 What changes are you referring to, exactly? And, why should I care? Start position, gun in box or gun on table, and gun storage are the big 3 I can think of. My club for example has no rifle racks for gun storage after shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Can you name any other division where changes to the stage are required for it to exist? Who cares. Its inconsequential and well worth the small effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 What changes are you referring to, exactly? And, why should I care? Start position, gun in box or gun on table, and gun storage are the big 3 I can think of. My club for example has no rifle racks for gun storage after shooting. Build a bigger box or put the PCC on the table. Bag flagged guns. I'll bet the PCC guys will build some racks or bring 3-gun style carts with rifle racks - if they want them. Your club is free not to offer PCC if this is too big of an inconvenience. Ours already hosts many different types of matches and has tables, racks, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 What changes are you referring to, exactly? And, why should I care? Start position, gun in box or gun on table, and gun storage are the big 3 I can think of. My club for example has no rifle racks for gun storage after shooting. Build a bigger box or put the PCC on the table. Bag flagged guns. I'll bet the PCC guys will build some racks or bring 3-gun style carts with rifle racks - if they want them. Your club is free not to offer PCC if this is too big of an inconvenience. Ours already hosts many different types of matches and has tables, racks, etc. Our club has racks too but I have been to several where you have to put your bag (pistol or rifle) on the ground. It isn't my favorite way to do it but it works and my bags survive. I would say the argument that clubs will have to build rifle racks is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 What changes are you referring to, exactly? And, why should I care?Start position, gun in box or gun on table, and gun storage are the big 3 I can think of. My club for example has no rifle racks for gun storage after shooting. Build a bigger box or put the PCC on the table. Bag flagged guns. I'll bet the PCC guys will build some racks or bring 3-gun style carts with rifle racks - if they want them. Your club is free not to offer PCC if this is too big of an inconvenience. Ours already hosts many different types of matches and has tables, racks, etc. Our club has racks too but I have been to several where you have to put your bag (pistol or rifle) on the ground. It isn't my favorite way to do it but it works and my bags survive. I would say the argument that clubs will have to build rifle racks is invalid.If you have to put your gun on the ground, what about a hard case? Wouldn't be hard to just mark which side the muzzle is on and go with one of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Can you name any other division where changes to the stage are required for it to exist? Yup.. Single Stack and 8-round revolver. Made every stage at every match change to be 8 round max required from one shooting position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 The 8 round thing was around before 8 shot revolvers were legal. Blame that on someone else, we shot 8 shot arrays with 6 rounds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Can you name any other division where changes to the stage are required for it to exist?Yup.. Single Stack and 8-round revolver. Made every stage at every match change to be 8 round max required from one shooting position. Is that true? I haven't been around long enough to know first hand but I thought that single stack and revolver were the divisions from the beginning. My understanding was 8 shot rule was added later but they both already existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 What changes are you referring to, exactly? And, why should I care?Start position, gun in box or gun on table, and gun storage are the big 3 I can think of. My club for example has no rifle racks for gun storage after shooting. Build a bigger box or put the PCC on the table. Bag flagged guns. I'll bet the PCC guys will build some racks or bring 3-gun style carts with rifle racks - if they want them. Your club is free not to offer PCC if this is too big of an inconvenience. Ours already hosts many different types of matches and has tables, racks, etc. Our club has racks too but I have been to several where you have to put your bag (pistol or rifle) on the ground. It isn't my favorite way to do it but it works and my bags survive. I would say the argument that clubs will have to build rifle racks is invalid.If you have to put your gun on the ground, what about a hard case? Wouldn't be hard to just mark which side the muzzle is on and go with one of those Oh, I didn't really make that clear. I don't mind putting the case on the ground too much it just isn't my favorite thing to do. A hard case would be fine too. I guess the point was that the club doesn't have to build anything for me to store my rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 What changes are you referring to, exactly? And, why should I care?Start position, gun in box or gun on table, and gun storage are the big 3 I can think of. My club for example has no rifle racks for gun storage after shooting. Build a bigger box or put the PCC on the table. Bag flagged guns. I'll bet the PCC guys will build some racks or bring 3-gun style carts with rifle racks - if they want them. Your club is free not to offer PCC if this is too big of an inconvenience. Ours already hosts many different types of matches and has tables, racks, etc. Our club has racks too but I have been to several where you have to put your bag (pistol or rifle) on the ground. It isn't my favorite way to do it but it works and my bags survive. I would say the argument that clubs will have to build rifle racks is invalid.If you have to put your gun on the ground, what about a hard case? Wouldn't be hard to just mark which side the muzzle is on and go with one of those Oh, I didn't really make that clear. I don't mind putting the case on the ground too much it just isn't my favorite thing to do. A hard case would be fine too. I guess the point was that the club doesn't have to build anything for me to store my rifle.Ah yes I agree. racks are nice but not necessary, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) The 8 round thing was around before 8 shot revolvers were legal. Blame that on someone else, we shot 8 shot arrays with 6 rounds.... You also shot 10 shot arrays.. It was an art form (still is) watching well practiced revolver shooters on a big course of fire. Edited April 8, 2016 by mike_pinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I spoke with Bruce Wells (Area 6 Director) over the weekend at the SC State match. He said initially all of the feedback he received was positive but lately almost all has been negative. PCC doesn't appear to be a sure thing for USPSA matches. I'd highly suggest contacting your respective AD and share your thoughts prior to the BoD meeting tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Two of the clubs in my neck of the woods will Not be offering it as an option at sign up until they are forced to by it being an approved division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Two of the clubs in my neck of the woods will Not be offering it as an option at sign up until they are forced to by it being an approved division.Even then they don't have to, match directors have the discretion to only offer specific divisions if they so choose. I belive that is the conclusion that was drawn at fairly long length in the carry optics thread, if I remember right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now