Should USPSA Eliminate A Division?

[teros135]

That was sarcasm, yes?

[motosapiens]

That was sarcasm, yes?

Whaaaaaaat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTSDL94_Y7M

Edited November 24, 2015 by motosapiens

[No.343]

We shouldn't get rid of any divisions. If we are on a witch hunt against sandbaggers and folks who try to increase their chances of a door prize then get rid of limited and restrict open to ten rounds.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Hell I say have more divisions if it gets more people shooting. Revolver with optics. Open minor 10 rounds, Oh wait that's carry optics or going to be more expensive class than real open. Single stack with no weight limit and can use a bull barrel, damn that is IPSC. Small gun carry that fits in a smaller box division limited to 6 rounds. 22LR with optics and iron sights. Lots of things can be done to get more people into the sport we just have to see what actually will work at the local level first. Limited 10 has it's place for people with restrictions on magazines and for those that have a single stacks already. The only one that kinda makes less sense to me is carry optics or maybe just the name. I know some guys who have red dots on there carry guns but they are either 1911's or 2011's. I guess we will see what happens in a year or two. Thanks, Eric

[copecowboy22]

I'd be in favor of getting rid of L10 if there was major in production. Make it 8 rounds like SS. L10 locally has the guys with plastic guns other than 9 and SS guns with 10 round mags.

[rancher5]

I'm sure this issue has been beaten to death so many times it really is getting old, but.......

I just read in Frontsite the issue to eliminate L10 is on the radar at least at the rules level, so once again, a final comment. As an L10 shooter, the reasons I shoot it are:

Us old diner sores need the two extra rounds to make up for our SS misses, Eyes don't work well any more.

I can keep the mags on the front and close side of the belt which provides better access.

The holster can be just about any retention device.

Major and minor power factors still apply, unlike in Production. Those who shoot major should get benefit for doing so.

I never go to a match expecting to win much more then a decal and a spare mag. If not enough people sign up for a match, eliminate the high level prize. No one wants sandbaggers to benefit at that level.

It would seem USPSA might just be a bit premature in eliminating this division. Should the next presidential election go a certain way, limiting pistols to 10 rounds only may become the norm not only in many states, but across the board. Then L10 becomes very relevant. The way the political landscape is changing, demographics tend to make me think we are headed for 8 more years of a hostile presidency.

So, my real question is why the effort to delete a division? As in all areas of life, it is common for conditions to swing one way, then swing back the other because of the nature of humans. What was old is now new and so forth. This clearly seen in Cowboy Action Shooting which certainly mystifies me. I would not compete in it, but it has seen a surge in popularity, and will also ebb and flow.

I suspect L10 will follow the same path if left alone. It will again in time become a relevant division left to its own devices. Who would have though Carry Optics would be a division 5 years ago?

Should be more open than restrictive, some division if there not enough ppl you just slide into the next like division,you might have a slight disadvantage or not.

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[StraightSh00ter]

I shoot Single Stack because I like 1911s. I don't like how few competitors there are, so I would be fine with Production allowing 1911/single action guns and combining the two.

I guess it could go either way though, maybe combine SS and L10?

I don't understand why Production has special rules about the position of the guns hammer and not allowing SAO guns. It seems to me like a stock 1911 is about as 'production' as it gets, and a modified 1911 would fit perfectly with the L10 guns.

[technetium-99m]

Why are you guys talking about messing with a very very popular division (production)? It's successful and healthily populated, people like it well enough to shoot a bunch of it. It works, leave it be. You don't gain a thing by letting 1911's in to play. They are just about impossible to police for stuff like slide lightening etc. Just picture a division where you had all the original production guns that can't have something as simple as new cocking serrations milled, but you can pretty much go to town on a 1911 because they are made in so many configurations.

[PatJones]

Why are you guys talking about messing with a very very popular division (production)? It's successful and healthily populated, people like it well enough to shoot a bunch of it. It works, leave it be. You don't gain a thing by letting 1911's in to play. They are just about impossible to police for stuff like slide lightening etc. Just picture a division where you had all the original production guns that can't have something as simple as new cocking serrations milled, but you can pretty much go to town on a 1911 because they are made in so many configurations.

While I agree with not messing with a successful division, I don't think 1911s would be very popular if they had to adhere to production rules. With no magwell, that reload would be a bit more difficult.

[Wesquire]

Remove revolver, L10, and Carry Optics.

Add production optics and a .22 open division.

[technetium-99m]

What about a 1911 that came with one from the factory?

I've always wondered why there isn't an Open 10, what made Limited special to get its own low capacity division?

[motosapiens]

I've always wondered why there isn't an Open 10, what made Limited special to get its own low capacity division?

There is, you just have to live in the 51st state.

[OUshooter]

If 1911's were allowed to play in Production, then maybe we could finally answer the "gun vs. skill" debate (sarcasm inserted). Let's face it those CZ and Tanfo triggers vs John Browning vs striker design would answer some questions.

Scrap L10 and SS and let those guns play in Prod. Let's concentrate the heat into a few divisions to see who is the best.

Edited December 16, 2015 by OUshooter

[bret]

Shot sunshine state games in fl this weekend and we only had 1 shooter in L10 and he could not receive any medals because there must be at least 2 in a division to receive a medal.

I thought there had to be 5 in a division.

Of there is only 1 shooter in a division, who did he beat, how did he win?

[vluc]

I shoot Single Stack because I like 1911s. I don't like how few competitors there are, so I would be fine with Production allowing 1911/single action guns and combining the two.

I guess it could go either way though, maybe combine SS and L10?

I don't understand why Production has special rules about the position of the guns hammer and not allowing SAO guns. It seems to me like a stock 1911 is about as 'production' as it gets, and a modified 1911 would fit perfectly with the L10 guns.

Open up SS to allow any single stack pistol to play, not just 1911. My SIG 225, while only 8+1, isn't allowed to play in SS because it is not 1911.

[bret]

L10 belongs in limited, because the only difference is magazine capacity.

In L10 you can use the same rig as limited, even same magazines.

Single stack and production have different gear requirements.

You can use the same holsters and magazine holders have to be behind the hop in SS and production.

What is the benefit of eliminating or combining a division?

[Pete Whyte]

Why does it bother some people what others choose to shoot? 9x45 claimed revolvers have ICORE.They can shoot there.ICORE doesn't have that many clubs around. Is he going to tell the S Stack shooters to go over to IDPA? Why can't we let members shoot what they want? No skin off my ass what someone shoots.I would hope our new president will leave it alone. We'll lose members, when we should be signing up new shooters.

[bret]

Get rid of open.

Those guns are loud.

[Sarge]

L10 belongs in limited, because the only difference is magazine capacity.

In L10 you can use the same rig as limited, even same magazines.

Single stack and production have different gear requirements.

You can use the same holsters and magazine holders have to be behind the hop in SS and production.

What is the benefit of eliminating or combining a division?

Holster placement is different between SS and PRO. Edited December 18, 2015 by Sarge

[Dr Mitch]

Don't get rid of any divisions. We talk trash about Lim 10, but it's just small talk, no one really cares and it doesn't affect anyone. Far fewer people talk about getting rid of Revo, even though it has less than half the number of classifiers being shot. Relax SS rules to allow other single stack designs, bring in pistol caliber carbines as a new division. Allow forward cocking serrations to be milled into Glock slides in Production. Opinion here, opinion there, opinion opinion everywhere.

[Rangerdug]

That was a no brainer!

I'm amazed at the number of votes to eliminate L10. Remember, there are some areas that still restrict mag capacity.

The rules already cover that, in states with restricted capacity Limited is restricted to the state limit. Of course that doesn't cover the fact that in theory those folks can't compete at the national level due to a presumed lack of equipment.

Of course, revolver is eliminating itself if we are honest.

Agreed