Jim Watson Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 They have in my district. Maybe they weren't getting the full three - or two minutes of training. One club gave up and went back to paper. That's not an indictment of the technology, but of the people too dumb to be able to grasp it No, it is an indictment of the people who expect the technology to be grasped immediately with little instruction and no practice. Kind of like shooting the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Alaskapopo, accuracy isn't boring but slow is. If your skill set allows you to go fast and still be accurate then good for you, go to the front of the line. You are probably already winning and the new rule won't change that. BillR, I enjoy discovering I shot a stage zero points down also, but I enjoy discovering that I turned up the speed dropped some points and won the match even more. Gryff, if its true, and it is, then it isn't a douchebag accusation, it's the truth. The fact that he got the geography wrong doesn't change the facts. Rowdyb, what a lot of match directors fail to remember is that an IDPA match is a form of entertainment that a customer pays for. The stages should be based on what the customer base enjoys in order to be providing a good product. If someone wants to be provide training they should open a shooting school. Jim Watson, while I think the new scoring technology is better then what we have been doing for decades and is the wave of the future, I to have issues with training my old brain to this new way of doing it. And more training would help. And it does seem easier to screw up. Edited September 24, 2015 by Bob Hostetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 They have in my district. Maybe they weren't getting the full three - or two minutes of training. One club gave up and went back to paper. That's not an indictment of the technology, but of the people too dumb to be able to grasp it No, it is an indictment of the people who expect the technology to be grasped immediately with little instruction and no practice. Kind of like shooting the gun. As an early (if not the first) MD to bring electronic scoring to IDPA in the area Jim W is referring to I'd like to comment. While not difficult to understand most people do need some minimal amount of training / explanation to effectively use the tablets. Unlike a clip board with paper and pen, very few people can be handed a tablet and quickly figure it out in real time as the SO is calling out scores. If someone has not used the tablet before they should get some help the first time - life is so much easier. There has to be a commitment by the local leadership to make it work - this means taking the time to show folks how it works, troubleshoot issues as they happen, and do a bit of a sales job. I made it work because I had a vested interest to streamline my MD job and deliver scores to the shooters faster and more error free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Alaskapopo, accuracy isn't boring but slow is. If your skill set allows you to go fast and still be accurate then good for you, go to the front of the line. You are probably already winning and the new rule won't change that. BillR, I enjoy discovering I shot a stage zero points down also, but I enjoy discovering that I turned up the speed dropped some points and won the match even more. I don't shoot any faster than I can see what I need to call the shot. If you do that, winning takes care of itself. At least it sure has for me. That's probably one reason why I enjoy shooting a revolver. You HAVE to make every shot count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 BillR1, if you are winning division championships at sanctioned matches while shooting zero points down you are a super hero. Every match, every time, regardless of division, should be shot like it's limited Vickers because other wise you are planning for failure which seems counter productive. Revolver is actually one of the easier divisions to compete in because you have lower overall skill levels and fewer competitors to compete against. It is somewhat easier to finish in the top 5 if there are only 5 people competing with a revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 BillR1, if you are winning division championships at sanctioned matches while shooting zero points down you are a super hero. Every match, every time, regardless of division, should be shot like it's limited Vickers because other wise you are planning for failure which seems counter productive. Revolver is actually one of the easier divisions to compete in because you have lower overall skill levels and fewer competitors to compete against. It is somewhat easier to finish in the top 5 if there are only 5 people competing with a revolver. No one said that I shoot an entire match zero down, but I always try to shoot as accurately as possible. It's worked well so far. At the sanctioned match that I won a DC in, I finished in the top 25% overall with a 6-shooter. I must not have been going real slow. I guess that's not bad for shooting in a division where skills are lacking. See your sights; call the shot. Let the results take care of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal82 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think at the top nothing will change for the larger events. I compete as a Master and have beaten other masters that are much faster then I am because I get better hits and less penalty points. IDPA scoring is already more accuracy based then USPSA. I am already striving for better accuracy each time I practice or shoot a match. It's an awesome feeling to finish a stage and know that I had a good time and know for sure that I was 0 down before scoring. The points change isn't really going effect how I shoot but I disagree with the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Sounds like you do very well with a revolver, congrats. I didn't mind to imply there wasn't any talent in revolver only that there are fewer top shooters in Revolver division then in the pistol divisions at your average sanctioned match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 They have in my district. Maybe they weren't getting the full three - or two minutes of training. One club gave up and went back to paper. That's not an indictment of the technology, but of the people too dumb to be able to grasp it No, it is an indictment of the people who expect the technology to be grasped immediately with little instruction and no practice. Kind of like shooting the gun. It's 2015. If someone can't pick up something as intuitive as Practiscore on a tablet and be able to competently run a squad with a couple of minutes of show and tell, it is THAT person who needs to get with the program. That's just the way it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I have shot in non-idpa matches where the outlaw rules basically doubled all penalties, like you have mentioned. It completely changes the way you shoot. You CANNOT afford to hit anything but -0. Heck 2 shots in a -1 will kill your stage. Edited: for me it ends up being quite boring because you cannot afford to shoot fast. Shooting accurately is boring? When the focus is only accuracy, HELL YES Been to a bullseye pistol match lately? It's like a nursing home I started in bulleye and found it fun. I find most shooting sports fun. That said simply putting more emphasis on accuracy will not change the game much the same people will still win. It may even help some to not be so sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 They have in my district. Maybe they weren't getting the full three - or two minutes of training. One club gave up and went back to paper. That's not an indictment of the technology, but of the people too dumb to be able to grasp it No, it is an indictment of the people who expect the technology to be grasped immediately with little instruction and no practice. Kind of like shooting the gun. It's 2015. If someone can't pick up something as intuitive as Practiscore on a tablet and be able to competently run a squad with a couple of minutes of show and tell, it is THAT person who needs to get with the program. That's just the way it is Yea BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Raven Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 t's 2015. If someone can't pick up something as intuitive as Practiscore on a tablet and be able to competently run a squad with a couple of minutes of show and tell, it is THAT person who needs to get with the program. That's just the way it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 t's 2015. If someone can't pick up something as intuitive as Practiscore on a tablet and be able to competently run a squad with a couple of minutes of show and tell, it is THAT person who needs to get with the program. That's just the way it is Dude Opinion.jpg We need a like button. Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 You guys whining about tablets/PS being hard to use realize that you're just reinforcing the stereotype that IDPA is for old people right? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 You guys whining about tablets/PS being hard to use realize that you're just reinforcing the stereotype that IDPA is for old people right? LOL I work in I.T. and have for many years. The Practiscore program on a tablet is a long way from "intuitive". I can sure understand that non-techies would have a learning period with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Well, I AM "old people." My level of competence and interest relative to IDPA is the pistol, a timer, pencil and paper, a Pepper Popper. I don't want to be bothered with an electronic gadget and I don't want to reset other people's sex toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWprotected Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I still believe this would be a bad move. Why keep messing with the rules? Let each person shoot the match to the best of their ability. The way I look at this is if I am going zero down and getting beat on stages then I am to slow period. I have also had the reverse be true where I had a fast run but dropped to many points and got beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I don't think you'll see a huge change in placements. Some of the guys that are very fast but sloppy will drop a couple places but not many. You don't stay at the top long by being sloppy. I shoot as much ICORE as I can and that is the scoring this would be closest to. It requires more self-knowledge, but not necessarily slower. 10 yards and under (a lot of IDPA targets) and I don't let off gas at all. 15 yards, dial it back some but I do that in IDPA already. Beyond that if you are spraying bullets today, you are probably not hitting all zeros and if you are at full speed you are winning divisions already. If you hit -1 and -3 today, you'll still hit them tomorrow under the new rule. The people in your class that hit them today are still going to hit them tomorrow. If someone beats you today by 1 second and under the new rules they beat you by 3 seconds does it change the fact that they shot better and won either way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 You guys whining about tablets/PS being hard to use realize that you're just reinforcing the stereotype that IDPA is for old people right? LOL I work in I.T. and have for many years. The Practiscore program on a tablet is a long way from "intuitive". I can sure understand that non-techies would have a learning period with it. match administration is not super intuitive. basic scoring is extremely intuitive, and we have everyone from 10 yr olds to old idpa shooters doing it in minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) the 10 year olds have an intuitive advantage with technology over people who grew up with rotary dial, party line telephones. Edited September 25, 2015 by Bob Hostetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 the 10 year olds have an intuitive advantage with technology over people who grew up with rotary dial, party line telephones. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I loved the party line. ours was 3 quick rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARD72977 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Any time IDPA makes a change it is not the direction I would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC702 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 ...her speech... "This is a sport where people carry guns for self defense. We are each ultimately responsible for where our bullets go." In my understanding this is implying that accuracy is more important than speed... Except that self defense is actually better served with a fast hit, instead of perfectly accurate slower one. The penalties for misses are already there, this is an insufficient reason for adjusting non-center hits. That said, I have no time to do the math on whether this fixes any actual problems or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) ...her speech... "This is a sport where people carry guns for self defense. We are each ultimately responsible for where our bullets go." In my understanding this is implying that accuracy is more important than speed... Except that self defense is actually better served with a fast hit, instead of perfectly accurate slower one. The penalties for misses are already there, this is an insufficient reason for adjusting non-center hits. That said, I have no time to do the math on whether this fixes any actual problems or not. A fast decisive hit not just a fast hit anywhere. Accuracy and speed are of equal importance and you can not put one above the other. If you are too slow your dead and if you miss instead of hit your mark your dead. Edited September 29, 2015 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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