Calling Your Second Shot at Speed

[ES13Raven]

In the quest for speed, I've developed a really bad habit of sometimes not calling my second shot. This turns out fine on close, open targets - but is detrimental on close partials or targets farther out.

On a close array, I am finding myself completely target focused and possibly point shooting.

On the mid range targets, sometimes I shoot them just as fast as a close array. I have a decent trigger finger and can regularly get .14 to .12 splits with my CZ. Sometimes I get 2 Alpha, sometimes not.

On fast splits with a bad hit, I'm not sure if I'm not gripping hard enough with my support hand, or not giving the gun time enough to settle back to POA when the shot goes off.

On the last target in an array, I occasionally have a Mike because I didn't call my second shot and must have pulled off to start running toward the next position.

Even if I say to myself: "Call every shot" right before the beep, I don't always do it - especially if something doesn't go as planned.

What is the best way to remedy this? Concentrate on slowing my splits down?

Anyone have some Drill recommendations for this?

[wav3rhythm]

Try the frank Garcia dot torture and grip with your support hand as hard as you can. In dry fire make sure you give each target a real sight picture and that you are not sweeping the targets.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ctay]

Setup a practice stage - some near to far targets will do. Run the stage several times at 50% speed calling every shot. Run it next at 75% again calling every shot. Once you can do it 100% at 50 & 75%, run one at 95%.

I've found I can't cheat and double tap at the slower speed which makes me program myself to see the sights.

[Nimitz]

you are more focused on going fast then seeing every shot. Seeing each shot should be the priority. Do not think about going fast but only about seeing your sights lift on every shot

[Zzapp]

Excuse my ignorance, but; what is shot calling?

[ron169]

Excuse my ignorance, but; what is shot calling?

At its core, knowing where the bullet went based on the alignment of the sights as the trigger breaks.

[38supPat]

I like TGO's 5 second drill. Really helps see how fast you should be shooting. Set up three targets (could be done on one but scoring would be a nightmare) and set a five second par time on your timer. On the first target, when the beep goes off, draw and fire as many shots in the 5 seconds as you can on target, all shots count. On the second target draw and fire as many shots on target as you can, In 5 seconds, only A's count, C and D's dont score. On the third target, in 5 seconds, draw and fire as many as you can on target. Only A's count....and anything that is not an A will subtract one A hit. So if you shoot 4 A and 4 C the 4C's cancel out the A's and you get zero.

You really have to learn how to return the gun quickly to get a good score but sloppiness has its cost.

I agree with those who say you are too concerned with splits on target and not enough with hitting the target. If you are pushing .12 with a Production gun and not reliably hitting you are shooting to fast. Alow that down to .16 or .18 and your hits will go up and overall time lost is not even worth mentioning. If you want to save time on a stage start looking at your transitions, draws, reloads, and movement. The last place you should be looking at for speed is splits.

[Dr. Phil]

I like TGO's 5 second drill. Really helps see how fast you should be shooting. Set up three targets (could be done on one but scoring would be a nightmare) and set a five second par time on your timer. On the first target, when the beep goes off, draw and fire as many shots in the 5 seconds as you can on target, all shots count. On the second target draw and fire as many shots on target as you can, In 5 seconds, only A's count, C and D's dont score. On the third target, in 5 seconds, draw and fire as many as you can on target. Only A's count....and anything that is not an A will subtract one A hit. So if you shoot 4 A and 4 C the 4C's cancel out the A's and you get zero.

You really have to learn how to return the gun quickly to get a good score but sloppiness has its cost.

I agree with those who say you are too concerned with splits on target and not enough with hitting the target. If you are pushing .12 with a Production gun and not reliably hitting you are shooting to fast. Alow that down to .16 or .18 and your hits will go up and overall time lost is not even worth mentioning. If you want to save time on a stage start looking at your transitions, draws, reloads, and movement. The last place you should be looking at for speed is splits.

AMEN!! I also like TGO's 3 second drill. I shoot it @ 10 yd. 3 sec par time, steel target. 1st beep draw & fire 1 shot. 2nd beep 2 shots and so on to 10 shots. Every level, look for As. When you get to 10 your pars will be running down around your .12 or .14. At some # of shots you will see your accuracy fall of for speed. Your "perfect" speed is the split before that. Also helps with your draw practice...

[38supPat]

If you have to run .12 to .14 splits on that drill you definitely need to work on your draw. With a 1.2 second draw your splits should be around .2 to make the 3 second par time for 10 shots on this drill.

[PatJones]

Are you focusing on the front sight or on the target?

Yes you can "see" the front sight when focused on the target, but beyond a few yards it leads to misses or poor hits that I didn't call. For most situations, I shoot better scores when my eye is focused on the front sight. In bright sunlight, I can see the serrations on the front sight while shooting.

I thought I was focusing on the sight until the front sight really caught my attention on one stage. I realized I'd been focused on the target and "looking" for the front sight. I now visualize my red fiber optic superimposed over the A zones as I burn the stage into memory while I'm on deck. For me, this makes me look for the front sight right out of the holster.

[Nimitz]

prior to having to stop shooting in April while I recover frm my wrist surgery i had been working on using a target focus out to 15 yards ... ie: still seeing the front sight but focused on the target. Past 15 yds it a hard front sight focus where I'm looking to count serrations on the FS as my bench mark. Can't imagine doing .12 splits with my Production gun ... I'm thrilled when I put down .18 splits on close targets .....

[ES13Raven]

Can't imagine doing .12 splits with my Production gun ... I'm thrilled when I put down .18 splits on close targets .....

This was one-handed from concealment with a Glock 17 back in 2013:

[CHA-LEE]

The first step is to realize that there is no such thing as a "Double Tap". That is if you want to get good and consistent hits on your second shot.

You need to change your visual patience to observe and break two separate shots. The best test of this is to create shooting challenges that force you to break the "Double Tap" habit, by adding or subtracting shots required for each target. Such as shooting only one shot on each target, or 3, 4 or 5 shots per target. Doing this will quickly expose your double tapping habits so you can work on eliminating them.

I like creating 3 shot per target stages for matches because it immediately exposes the "Double Tappers" because you hear their shooting cadence as "BOOM, BOOM.............. BOOM". This is because they double tap out the first two shots then actually have to consciously decide to break a third. Verses simply treating each shot as its own separate event and being visually patient enough to allow each shot to happen at its own pace.

[mwx40x40]

This helped me , but may not be the best solution. I setup the Steel Challenge 5 to Go and practice shooting doubles on each plate on the clock. Definitely need to see the sight on the second shot .

[ES13Raven]

I appreciate all the suggestions

[a matt]

If you are cutting .12 to .14 consistently, you should be concentrating on transitions.lol. I have the same issue I'm working tru. Good luck, thanks for post the help.

[Chris iliff]

You might also try........

Setting up a near to far drill. Target at 3 yards, partial target at 15 yards or so, and a steel plate (paper plates work good) at 25.

From the buzzer draw and shoot the targets. You can start at 25 and work your way back, far to near, or at 3 and work out, near to far. Goal here isn't speed, although that will happen over time and should be something you are constantly pushing in practice. The goal is thus,.....this array will simulate the 3 different types of "trigger pulls" you will encounter in your new career as a uspsa shooter. Each distance requires a different "finesse" if you will. At 3 yards you can slap the hell out of that trigger. The shots will be soooooo close together it'll almost sound like one. There is no finesse at 3 yards. BANGBANG. At 15 yards now we are talking a bit of discipline,...BANG BANG. 25 yards ,......BANG.........BANG.

This puppy teaches pretty good trigger discipline and ingrains a good subconscious reaction to varying target distances. It really helped me anyway.

Striving for good solid hits on this wIll get you where you want to be.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Chris iliff

[Nimitz]

yep, a really great drill for learning to see every shot .... once I got my splits consistently under .25 for everything except really long targets or difficult partials I stopped worrying about split times ..... no real point to lowering them

working on getting your splits from say .20 down to .13 buys you basically nothing in a match ....typical 5 stage match with say 60 paper targets, that's a savings of .07 secs per target or a total of 4.2 secs for the entire match. balance that against all the points you are giving up because you are shooting faster than you can see and you're far better off with the "slower" splits. Also, for most, their transition execution is so poor that they are probably giving up at least double or triple that in lost time which is where the real match performance gains could be made

"double tap" and 'slowing down to get your hits" are phrases which will never put you on the path to shooting greatness ....

[Reshoot]

You might also try........

Setting up a near to far drill. Target at 3 yards, partial target at 15 yards or so, and a steel plate (paper plates work good) at 25.

From the buzzer draw and shoot the targets. You can start at 25 and work your way back, far to near, or at 3 and work out, near to far. Goal here isn't speed, although that will happen over time and should be something you are constantly pushing in practice. The goal is thus,.....this array will simulate the 3 different types of "trigger pulls" you will encounter in your new career as a uspsa shooter. Each distance requires a different "finesse" if you will. At 3 yards you can slap the hell out of that trigger. The shots will be soooooo close together it'll almost sound like one. There is no finesse at 3 yards. BANGBANG. At 15 yards now we are talking a bit of discipline,...BANG BANG. 25 yards ,......BANG.........BANG.

This puppy teaches pretty good trigger discipline and ingrains a good subconscious reaction to varying target distances. It really helped me anyway.

Striving for good solid hits on this wIll get you where you want to be.

I am going to set this up! Sounds like just what I need

[motosapiens]

sounds to me like you have practiced pulling your eyes off early in order to beat par times. Now you need to practice keeping your eyes on the shot until it breaks.

I did the same thing, by overemphasizing speed this spring. So now I am incorporating more 'match mode' drills in dryfire and live fire, where I don't worry about speed at all, but just look at the sights. Oddly enough, it is often faster for me to just look at the sights than to try to go fast.

I don't know that there's any particular drill to fix the problem. I think for me it requires a change in mindset. Lately I seem to be getting more out of anderson's speed mode, accuracy mode and match mode concepts.

[Supermoto]

Are you focusing on the front sight or on the target?

Yes you can "see" the front sight when focused on the target, but beyond a few yards it leads to misses or poor hits that I didn't call. For most situations, I shoot better scores when my eye is focused on the front sight. In bright sunlight, I can see the serrations on the front sight while shooting.

I thought I was focusing on the sight until the front sight really caught my attention on one stage. I realized I'd been focused on the target and "looking" for the front sight. I now visualize my red fiber optic superimposed over the A zones as I burn the stage into memory while I'm on deck. For me, this makes me look for the front sight right out of the holster.

You can call shots just as easily focusing on the front sight as you can focusing on the target

[ES13Raven]

I agree with those who say you are too concerned with splits on target and not enough with hitting the target. If you are pushing .12 with a Production gun and not reliably hitting you are shooting to fast. Alow that down to .16 or .18 and your hits will go up and overall time lost is not even worth mentioning. If you want to save time on a stage start looking at your transitions, draws, reloads, and movement. The last place you should be looking at for speed is splits.

I have been working on transitions, draws, reloads, and movement too. I'm not consciously trying for fast splits - it just happens. I need to concentrate on slowing down the shots on anything but close, open targets.

This past weekend at a Match, I thought I could double-tap a close target that was all hardcover except for the A-Zone. I shot it on the move and had to make up a shot:

[Daft]

Like the thread. Its easy to shoot too fast when the buzzer goes off.

[sfinney]

Don't think about split speed. See what you need to see for each shot.

[Firefight5243]

I'm struggling with my second shot going low.... It's not every time , but I have found that consistently it lands low C or high D..... Of course it's the equipment and not me lol.