tha1000 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is it legal to bevel the inside of a mag well on a pistol, within the size limitations mentioned in the rules, and still be production legal? Ie I have a CZ sp01 shadow, which has a nice bevel to the magwell. I am currently building a CZ 75 pre b as a backup gun and it has no bevel from the factory. Is it still legal if I bevel it to match the shadow? I've searched and can't find a definitive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 If it wasn't legal why else would they specify a size limitation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tha1000 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 D'oh. Good point. Just want to make sure I'm not turning this into a limited minor gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combat tupperware Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it say for production that unless a modification is expressly allowed it is forbidden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj36d Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'd be interested to hear NROI opinion on this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it say for production that unless a modification is expressly allowed it is forbidden?Internal modification?" 21.1 Internal throating and polishing to improve accuracy, reliability and function." " Because internal modifications are currently very difficult to enforce, NROI now deems that this clause means INTERNAL modifications which do NOT conflict with other clauses of this appendix are NOW ALLOWED." " Per existing NROI ruling, any internal modifications which result in a visible change to the external appearance of the gun when it is in battery REMAIN PROHIBITED unless specifically allowed by the plain language herein." Edited July 5, 2015 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Doesn't 22.4 cover this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Doesn't 22.4 cover this? That is the correct section but doesn't explicitly say whether or not you can enlarge a factory mag well or you have to leave it be. I believe that removing material is common practice in USPSA and I feel comfortable justifying this under the "may be more than 1/4 inch front to back" language. However, as a precaution I have largely avoided modifying the slides since no dimensions for sides are explicitly mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 21.1 - • Per existing NROI ruling, any “internal” modifications which result in a visible change to the external appearance of the gun when it is in battery REMAIN PROHIBITED unless specifically allowed by the plain language herein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 It's also an external mod, because you'd visibly thin the rail at the bottom of grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tha1000 Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 This is why I started the thread. Everybody I ask seems to have a differing opinion on the legality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Do it and then refinish the frame and magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 If you have a magazine seated, is the alteration visible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I believe it was deemed illegal to put paint or the like inside the grip frame to aid reloads because it was a visible external mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaseMarshall Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I am curious about this as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 just send a email to Troy and you won't have to endlessly debate this ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robb315 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) In reference to the paint in magwell, Illegal http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=47 Edited July 5, 2015 by robb315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I believe it was deemed illegal to put paint or the like inside the grip frame to aid reloads because it was a visible external mod. Painting a dot, stripes, or other patterns to make it easier to reload or acquire the sights more quickly was clarified illegal. That doesn't say anything about painting the slide or frame, though, which is legal as long as it doesn't provide a competitive advantage Appendix A4, 21.2a - "This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). (Caps in original) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If the gun is in battery it would have a mag in it, and you would not be able to see the mag well. Plus why do they list an acceptable front to back maximum mag well dimension if not implying it could be enlarged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I believe it was deemed illegal to put paint or the like inside the grip frame to aid reloads because it was a visible external mod. Then explain a grip plug being legal as long as it does not extend below the grip. I used a glockworx plug in my 34 that added a nice bevel and it was flat on the bottom. Legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Don't think I need to explain anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I believe it was deemed illegal to put paint or the like inside the grip frame to aid reloads because it was a visible external mod.Then explain a grip plug being legal as long as it does not extend below the grip. I used a glockworx plug in my 34 that added a nice bevel and it was flat on the bottom. Legal. Because 22.3 says it is? You answered your own question in your response. Even though I enjoy production, the endless debates about legality of mods gets tiring. Even though it is unlikely to happen it would be nice if the rules could be cleaned up some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 That will never happen because there will always be someone who'll ask, "But can I do this to my gun, can I do that..." And someone will have to decide what will be allowed, leading to the slippery slope of permissible mods we now have. Really, it was simpler when it was "no external mods. Period." I think each allowed mod, on it's own, seems innocent enough, but the totally of them defies common sense, like Sarge is pointing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsons1480 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I would be interested to know if I can sand the inside of my CZ magwell smooth. I have beat the crap out of it doing reloads, and wouldn't mind running some sand paper over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 That will never happen because there will always be someone who'll ask, "But can I do this to my gun, can I do that..." And someone will have to decide what will be allowed, leading to the slippery slope of permissible mods we now have. Really, it was simpler when it was "no external mods. Period." I think each allowed mod, on it's own, seems innocent enough, but the totally of them defies common sense, like Sarge is pointing out. Thanks for helping show that I was just trying to point out some things. It seems to me the rules allow you to put a bevel on your magwell withing the confines of the rule. I think a magwell is internal not external as well. I also agree it would be better to make Production much more stock. Let companies make specific guns for competition and sell them, get them approved and let shooters buy them if they want to spend the money. I think it's nuts that our rules almost make it commonplace to email DNROI every time we read the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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