Should certified range officers be clearly identified?

[d_striker]

Bottom line is if you can look the shooter in the eye and tell them exactly what they did, with no equivocation, then make the call. No calls made on "I think you......"

This is what the NROI instructor told us at an RO class I just took. His statement was that you better be 100% sure of a 180 or finger in trigger guard infraction. I asked what about if you're 99% sure. He said, you need to be 100% sure.

[gng4life]

I think people get confused with issuing a warning and applying a DQ. A warning is issued when a shooter is about to break a safety rule or in jeopardy. If they break the rule, then apply the appropriate action. Do NOT give a warning for a clear cut violation that requires the shooter to be stopped. Just be totally sure of your call.

Sent from the range

[gng4life]

Bottom line is if you can look the shooter in the eye and tell them exactly what they did, with no equivocation, then make the call. No calls made on "I think you......"

This is what the NROI instructor told us at an RO class I just took. His statement was that you better be 100% sure of a 180 or finger in trigger guard infraction. I asked what about if you're 99% sure. He said, you need to be 100% sure.

+1

Sent from the range

[Lisa C]

Stick with the match and help the MD/RO’s. You were right in being non-confrontational. Best to offer help and pointers 1:1 with RO’s rather than in front of an audience, e.g. while resetting stage/taping up. Being tactful is key when you’re the newcomer. An authoritative, “I’m a certified RO,” results in a dismissive attitude with people shutting down. Try again and look forward to returning.

As for the details of this particular match, “Stop,” is universally understood and gets the expected reaction. Everyone has the right to call it, certified or not, because it's an immediate danger. It’s intuitive followed by a wave of people ducking. If the RO’s disagree with the person who called it, they can allow a re-shoot. The 1 - 4 second pause after, “Shooter stand by,” is expected so speaking up for others would be appreciated. Offering to help with the timer is different from taking it out of someone’s hands, if I’m picturing this correctly. This calls for simply being a good sport. If they want your help, they’ll know where to turn.

Armbands to indicate RO, no need. The clipboard and timer do that. Wearing an indicator at a L-1 match may cause complacency in the shooters who are waiting their turn. The more eyes on the shooter during the CoF help everyone. Offer to RO prior to the next match.

Good luck and stick with it.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Lisa C

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

SNIP

I managed to get hold of the clock but the reactions to my range calls, which were the proper USPSA range commands, was negative. They also seemed to dislike my wait of at least one full second after the "Get ready!" command.

It was obvious that they were very unhappy with my way of running the clock and managed to get hold of the clock and all I could do was shake my head in disbelief while praying that no one would get hurt. Yet, I did everything by the rule book and in a non confrontational manner. This was not the first time I was doing the job either. I was obviously the only one who had the proper training.

SNIP

You guys are slacking. Page three and no one picked up on this?

8.3.1 “Make Ready” – This command signifies the start of “the Course of Fire”. Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor must face down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range

Edited June 14, 2015 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[ChuckS]

You guys are slacking. Page three and no one picked up on this?

8.3.1 Make Ready This command signifies the start of the Course of Fire. Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor must face down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range

We are trying to remain incognito. ;-) Edited June 14, 2015 by ChuckS

[StealthyBlagga]

Talk to the MD or RM. If the event is advertised as a USPSA match, it is required to be run under USPSA rules (even a Level 1 match). The range commands, safety rules and RO conduct are all clearly defined in the rule book. Non-compliant range commands are no more acceptable than non-compliant stage designs, non-compliant targets or non-compliant equipment divisions. If the MD/RM are not interested in enforcing USPSA rules, talk with USPSA HQ and see if they can exert some influence.

[ZackJones]

I managed to get hold of the clock but the reactions to my range calls, which were the proper USPSA range commands, was negative. They also seemed to dislike my wait of at least one full second after the "Get ready!" command.

While "Get Ready" was a snappy tune by the Temptations it's not one of the proper range commands . I'm sure you meant "Make Ready" but I couldn't resist. You do bring up an interesting point. My initial thought is USPSA certified RO/CROs should be identified in some manner but then you run in to cases where someone that is certified may want to not be identified as such. I tend to do that when I shoot at a club other than my own. It's one of the few times I get to shoot without having to deal with a timer / Nook so I know if like laying low.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ZackJones

[Vlad]

It is almost as you guys are proposing that USPSA issues some form of card one can use to show they are an RO ...

[jhgtyre]

No matter what you chose it would look like that to the people who saw it.

Those who said to go to the MD are 100% right. It won't seem like you are tattling and, if safety is the concern, he/she will be glad you brought it to their attention.

-ld

[Southpaw]

I'm surprised everyone's giving Nick such a hard time. I've been PMing with him and I don't want to speak for him, but he has some valid concerns.

I don't particularly want to wear an armband or something like that and it would come off as a "I'm kind of a big deal" attitude, but I've been in a number of situations where I would have liked to know if the guy holding the timer was an RO...or at least if he's ever read the rulebook.

This is even more of an issue at matches that don't use squads like we have here. Every time you walk up to a new stage there's a different person holding the timer that you might not know or haven't seen yet that day. And the way it works here if you're ROing and your turn to shoot is coming up soon you usually yell something like "can someone take the timer, I'm up soon" and someone will take it. If no one volunteers right away I think some people who aren't ROs and don't know all the rules feel obligated to take the timer anyway. I thankfully haven't seen any serious safety problems yet, but have seen a lot of incorrect scoring by non-ROs holding the timer.

It is almost as you guys are proposing that USPSA issues some form of card one can use to show they are an RO ...

Funny enough, this arrived in the mail from HQ just a few days ago. Yes the ID card looks like I made it in my garage, but it actually came from HQ. No, I will not be carrying around the ID card or stitching the patch onto a shirt. I may get the certificate they also sent me framed and hang it on my wall (no, not really)

Edited June 15, 2015 by Russell92

[ktm300]

It is almost as you guys are proposing that USPSA issues some form of card one can use to show they are an RO ...

[JMike]

SNIP

I managed to get hold of the clock but the reactions to my range calls, which were the proper USPSA range commands, was negative. They also seemed to dislike my wait of at least one full second after the "Get ready!" command.

It was obvious that they were very unhappy with my way of running the clock and managed to get hold of the clock and all I could do was shake my head in disbelief while praying that no one would get hurt. Yet, I did everything by the rule book and in a non confrontational manner. This was not the first time I was doing the job either. I was obviously the only one who had the proper training.

SNIP

You guys are slacking. Page three and no one picked up on this?

8.3.1 “Make Ready” – This command signifies the start of “the Course of Fire”. Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor must face down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range

I agree!

LOL! It took me ten minutes to get through the thread, 3 days after the initial post.

What is the "Get Ready" command? I hate to say it but no wonder they had problems with the OP.

EDIT: Was this a typo by the OP? Hey, it happens sometimes.

Edited June 15, 2015 by JMike

[Nik Habicht]

It is almost as you guys are proposing that USPSA issues some form of card one can use to show they are an RO ...

Cards can be faked by anyone......

....clearly we need badges!

[Jadeslade]

When I watched Juventus play Barcelona last week, I thought it was a friendly with the referees. The shirt is for Nationals, it's a nice shirt. This is a stupid match. Find another one. There at least 5, I think at Rio. Ben Avery is IDPA heaven, don't know where else this match would be. But complaining about a squad at a match in Phoenix is going to elicit some flack, simply because practically everyone is an actual RO and there's a lot of really good matches.

[Sarge]

[Nik Habicht]

Somebody got it!

[gng4life]

Priceless! I was thinking the same thing.

[bishop414]

When I watched Juventus play Barcelona last week, I thought it was a friendly with the referees. The shirt is for Nationals, it's a nice shirt. This is a stupid match. Find another one. There at least 5, I think at Rio. Ben Avery is IDPA heaven, don't know where else this match would be. But complaining about a squad at a match in Phoenix is going to elicit some flack, simply because practically everyone is an actual RO and there's a lot of really good matches.

Don't forget South Mountain...

[Ed K]

7.3.2 References in these rules to Range Officials (e.g. "Range Officer", "Range Master" etc.), mean personnel who have been officially appointed by match organizers to actually serve in an official capacity at the match. Persons who are certified Range Officials, but who are actually participating in the match as regular competitors, have no standing or authority as Range Officials for that match. Such persons should therefore not participate in the match wearing garments bearing Range Official insignia.

[jester121]

Ed, I'm pretty sure that just means don't wear your NROI shirt to shoot your Area match if you're not working the match.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I'm surprised everyone's giving Nick such a hard time. I've been PMing with him and I don't want to speak for him, but he has some valid concerns.

I don't particularly want to wear an armband or something like that and it would come off as a "I'm kind of a big deal" attitude, but I've been in a number of situations where I would have liked to know if the guy holding the timer was an RO...or at least if he's ever read the rulebook.

This is even more of an issue at matches that don't use squads like we have here. Every time you walk up to a new stage there's a different person holding the timer that you might not know or haven't seen yet that day. And the way it works here if you're ROing and your turn to shoot is coming up soon you usually yell something like "can someone take the timer, I'm up soon" and someone will take it. If no one volunteers right away I think some people who aren't ROs and don't know all the rules feel obligated to take the timer anyway. I thankfully haven't seen any serious safety problems yet, but have seen a lot of incorrect scoring by non-ROs holding the timer.

It is almost as you guys are proposing that USPSA issues some form of card one can use to show they are an RO ...

Funny enough, this arrived in the mail from HQ just a few days ago. Yes the ID card looks like I made it in my garage, but it actually came from HQ. No, I will not be carrying around the ID card or stitching the patch onto a shirt. I may get the certificate they also sent me framed and hang it on my wall (no, not really)

And every time you re-test, you will get another card.

I think the reason people are giving the OP a hard time kinda is the way it is presented. Stating "Get Ready" in his post hurt his credibility for me at least.

The problem is not for a specific shooter to solve but is a problem for the match organizer. Help is slack sometimes. One club match in this area was run by one guy who relied on others to step up and run squads. Had they all been to RO Class? maybe not all the time. Does that mean the match doesn't go on? No. It means you do what you can to make it as good an experience as you can and as safe as possible.

Trying to "Grab the timer" because you think you know more that the people running it is not the answer. Speaking with the MD or the match organizer before or after and offering to help or at least expressing your concerns would probably be a better course of action. If that doesn't work and it really bothers someone, they should find another place to shoot.

Everyone has to start somewhere. Although I have not been playing this game as long as others, I have been a RO for a while. I have never complained about how someone else runs a shooter. I keep it to myself as long as it is safe. If it isn't safe, then I would say something.

As far as a badge, an insignia or more, I remember a group of guys I used to shoot with. They had shirts made up and had the NROI patch you pictured on a sleeve. Funny thing is one of the guys was not NROI certified. He ran a lot of shooters and did a hell of a good job but never took the class. Should he display a NROI patch? No way but it was a mistake by the person ordering.

A Patch or a badge does not make a RO. Experience and a willingness to get involved does

[whitedog]

Sadly.....being an RO does mean you got certified by NROI. Or yer not an RO. You may be acting as one, and doing an awesome job as well, but yer not a regognized RO.

Not say those that are not certified don't do a good job....just stating a fact some seem to have overlooked.

[racnsoonr]

A couple of thoughts...

Let the rm or md know about the past situation. See how they deal with it. Hope it gets better. Keep doing all "you" can to help. That's why most of us became ro's in the first place.

The next time you are ran through the cof by one of these "ro's" and happen to have a bad run, call for a reshoot for improper range commands. When they argue, call for the rm, md and enjoy your reshoot and the lesson you just shared without trying to tell them what to do

Also, you can get a business card with the proper range commands from nroi I believe. Our instructor handed them out at our class. I used it frequently at a recent level 2 match. Gamers be gaming and they will look for a cause for reshoot if they need it and are provided an easy opportunity. Running into am ro following too closely or improper range commands will get it done if I'm not mistaken

[waktasz]

You can't get a reshoot for improper range commands. Once you begin your attempt at the COF you own it.