slow burning powders and minor PF

[Nimitz]

Is there any noticable effect to using a slow burning powder like HS6 or auto comp which are designed for 9major loads with comped guns and using it for a 9 minor load?

[Yagi]

slow burning means more grains to your load. plus the recoil impulse is different.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Agree with Yagi (above). ^^^^^^^^^

I'd guess ? that with the slow burning powders, the recoil impulse

might be a little better with heavier rather than lighter bullets

[mgardner]

I've used 6 grains of HS-6 behind a 125 grain plated bullet and it shoots fine but is a little dirty. The recoil is different too. I like Titegroup best but it's hard to get right now.

[Garmil]

I made some 9 minor loads with longshot just to try it out. Was dirty and sharper recoil than faster powders.

[19852]

Slowest powder I've used with 9mm minor is VV N340. Had to go with 4.7 gr to get PF with a 125gr. Zero. It worked but I have since found faster powders work better. I like VV N320. I also have some N310 to experiment with.

[GOF]

Slow burning powders are a poor choice for minor loads because you're loading below their performance envelope. Incomplete burns, sooty cases, and erratic velocities (by that I mean swings of up to 40-50 fps) result. Using heavier bullets doesn't improve things by much.

[jlo86cj]

I just started running True Blue with Xtreme 147's and it seems cleaner than the Titegroup I was previously using. The recoil seems about the same, and my 12 year old doesn't have any more limp-wrist failures. The load is 4.5gr at 1.140" and it gives me 858fps out of his G17. I do get 40-50fps spreads (mixed brass), but the accuracy is better than he is.

[vinceislander]

I made some 9 minor loads with longshot just to try it out. Was dirty and sharper recoil than faster powders.

I have tried 5.1gr - 5.5gr of Longshot behind 124gr Extreme RN and my experience is different. I perceived the recoil to be slower and more of a push. Slow enough to witness the slide "pause" before moving forward after each shot. Shooting out of CZ P-09 and P-07.

[Garmil]

I made some 9 minor loads with longshot just to try it out. Was dirty and sharper recoil than faster powders.

I have tried 5.1gr - 5.5gr of Longshot behind 124gr Extreme RN and my experience is different. I perceived the recoil to be slower and more of a push. Slow enough to witness the slide "pause" before moving forward after each shot. Shooting out of CZ P-09 and P-07.

I've heard people talk about this and I don't see how it's possible. In slo mo footage even with light recoil springs that keep the slide open longer the gun is back in battery before they even lift their finger to reset the trigger on a double tap.

[v1911]

I tried HS-6 under some 147gr. The recoil was considerably more than other faster burning powders I used. For minor loads it's also less economical than faster powders.

[drysideshooter]

I have been pretty happy with Autocomp and CFE Pistol for 9mm minor loads out of an XDm with radically lightened slide. The difference may be that I am running a Springer 2 port comp, so less comp openings than most.

With a load less than published minimums under a MG 124 cmj it makes 130PF and is a bunny fart.

I know when I tried minor loads with different springs out of my SVI 38SC, I experienced some of the above mentioned problems, especially sootiness. Guessing that will be a common problem with most slower powders for minor loads with most comps.

[Nimitz]

thx all ... not planning on giving up my WST and N320 over a 147g for Production or over a 115 g for Steel Challenge but was curious how different it would be ... sounds like a considerable difference ...

[swearengen]

I tried using Blue Dot for 9 minor and it was a disaster. Didn't reliably work the slide until like 150pf and was dirty as hell.

Power Pistol was flashy and snappy but atleast ran the gun reliably at minor pf. I'm sticking to the faster powders.

[drysideshooter]

I made the assumption that you were talking about 9 minor loads out of a gun with a comp, but realize now that probably isn't the case. I have been happy with Autocomp and CFE Pistol for minor 9mm out of guns with a comp. My personal favorite for 9mm minor loads without a comp has always been WSF.

[gose]

Slow burning powders are a poor choice for minor loads because you're loading below their performance envelope. Incomplete burns, sooty cases, and erratic velocities (by that I mean swings of up to 40-50 fps) result. Using heavier bullets doesn't improve things by much.

One of my PPC accuracy load was with VV340 and 115gr bullets. 7 shot groups out of a ransom rest with my SIG 210s were ~1-1.5" at 50 yards. Dont have my loads or chrono data in front of me, but they were right around minor.

Right now I shoot Open minor, 115gr bullets and VV 3n37, and though my Czechmates arent as accurate as my 210s, they're surprisingly close.

No signs of incomplete burns or erratic velocities with either load.

I did try some similar loads with 3n38 and started seeing some incomplete burns, so yes, eventually you'll end up there. I guess it all depends on the definition of "slow powders"

[Pasley]

4.8 grains of N340 and 115 grain jacketed is a real nice load. I never thought of n340 as being a slow powder.

[photoracer]

For slow loads out of my 9x23 I have always used 5.3g of Unique. Works good with a 10# spring in my Limited gun and its not too dirty either. I generally use a shorter OAL of 1.254. Runs about 1100 FPS. Might be 4.7g in a 9x19 case but not sure.

[echotango]

5.6gr of wac and 115gr MG. 131pf. Spreads are approx 10-20fps. Same with 5.3/124.

[bowenbuilt]

There is a huge difference in minor between the slow burning powders and the fast ones. Years ago I tried the mid to slow powders in minor and found them loud, nasty and the ES all over the place. The first time I tried a faster powder for comparison it was WOW! What a difference! This was especially true for the heavier bullets. Even a bigger difference. Trying to get the optimum burn rate for the power factor is a major improvement in every department. I may still have to do it one day when nothing else is available but that would be the only reason and I would not be happy about it but it would beat not being able to shoot at all.

[echotango]

bowenbuilt, any powder in particular? Always willing to try things.

Edited May 10, 2015 by echotango

[bowenbuilt]

Any of the faster burning powders would work. You will have to experiment to find the one that works best. e3, RS Competition, N320, Red Dot, 231/HP-38, WST or SR-7625 just to name a few. It's sort of a personal thing with everyone which one is their favorite or what is available. Some have favorites simply because they haven't tried anything else. I choose a powder based on recoil characteristics, cleanliness and accuracy. After you try a few I am sure you will find one that you like better.

[NateTSU]

So let me make sure I have this straight, for a smooth recoil impulse it's best to use a heavy bullet and fast powder. The drawbacks of a slow burning powder is high extreme spreads on velocity, "different" recoil impulse, possible reliability issues due to the powder being out of its optimal range and the number of rounds per pound of powder is lower than a fast powder due to having to use more grains per cartridge. So for a 9mm minor it would be ideal to have a heavy bullet like 147gr and a light charge of a fast burning powder?

[vinceislander]

Any of the faster burning powders would work. You will have to experiment to find the one that works best. e3, RS Competition, N320, Red Dot, 231/HP-38, WST or SR-7625 just to name a few. It's sort of a personal thing with everyone which one is their favorite or what is available. Some have favorites simply because they haven't tried anything else. I choose a powder based on recoil characteristics, cleanliness and accuracy. After you try a few I am sure you will find one that you like better.

I have a few pounds of Ramshot Competition and just ordered 147gr FP coated lead bullets on the way. Based on Ramshot's load data, I may be able to achieve 127PF but at max load. I already use the powder with 124gr RN plated and it has a light snap recoil at 950fps.

Bowenbuilt is pointing you in the right direction.

[bowenbuilt]

So let me make sure I have this straight, for a smooth recoil impulse it's best to use a heavy bullet and fast powder. The drawbacks of a slow burning powder is high extreme spreads on velocity, "different" recoil impulse, possible reliability issues due to the powder being out of its optimal range and the number of rounds per pound of powder is lower than a fast powder due to having to use more grains per cartridge. So for a 9mm minor it would be ideal to have a heavy bullet like 147gr and a light charge of a fast burning powder?

You sir have a handle on it. 3.4 of RS Comp. with a 147 coated at 1.135 to 1.140 will usually get you right where you want to be or 3.9 to 4.1 of RS Comp with a 124/125 grain coated if you like a little more snap. Either way you will like it better than a slower burning powder under the same bullet. Ramshot, like most other companies of late has some of their starting loads that won't even cycle the slide. As always check for pressure signs as you go.

Edited May 13, 2015 by bowenbuilt