Do you always load as long as possible?

[jtaylor996]

I ask this as I just started setting up my dies, and it seems that I can go to 1.250 OAL on my infinity barrel without any touching of the rifling.

Ummm... that's just too long, though, right??

The crimp is hanging out over the groove in the 180gr BBI bullets I'm using...

Or is this all just fine and dandy and just go ahead and load super duper long?

Also, my EGW 5 hole chamber checker sucks. Ammo plunks just fine in the chamber but won't go head first into the checker. If i plop them in backwards they go in just fine, so it's interfering with the bullet itself. Using it backwards is no good as I can't check high primers with a swipe of the finger....

Anyone else have this issue with the EGW chamber checkers?

Lastly, the redding competition seater die's scale doesn't seem to line up with reality at all. Like to make actual .07 change you have to crank in like .25 on the dial. That seems to make the micrometer completely useless, even if you can reset the zero (which I did...).

Edited April 8, 2015 by jtaylor996

[racknrider]

Will 1.250" fit in your mags? My gun has run everything from 1.135 to 1.200 without problem. I settled at 1.170, as that works with the powder charge my measure throws and makes PF.

My Xtreme loads fit the case checker fine, but I load 165 BBI for minor and they stick in the case checker but run fine in the gun. Like yours, mine will fit backwards.

[kneelingatlas]

Here's my take on the "load as long as possible" thing as I understand it: early 1911/2011 pistols/mags which were designed for the .45 would not function with small frame .40 rounds unless loaded long, the added benefit was that loading long has the effect of reducing chamber pressures which can become problematic when loading fast powders behind heavy bullets. The tradeoff is that longer rounds take more powder to make the same velocity.

My thought is that if your mags/chamber/powder/bullets work at SAAMI length, there isn't any advantage to loading long. Some might say loads are more accurate when the bullet is closest to the rifling, but that's not consistent with my experience.

[cletus9mm]

My biggest concern loading that long would be support for the bullet. The brass wont have a lot of purchase on the bullet to keep it concentric. Ive never loaded any .40 rounds to a length past 1.2 but my suspicion is that youll have more runout of the bullet with it being that far outside the case. More runout would likely make the rounds less consistent therefore less accurate. Again its something ive never qualified with range time but it sounds good!

I also seat my .40 with a redding micrometer die. When i am setting up for a new length i always back the die way out and turn it down till i get desired length. Its always been spot on for me. Just arbitrary numbers but if im at 1.2 and i want to seat at 1.180 then i can just turn 20 thousandths on the die and itll end up at 1.180. If thats not happening with yours my first thought would be to clean it. Mine came from the factory pretty heavily oiled. If you start out with the bullet short, say 1.150 and want to back out the die 30 thousandths to hit your 1.180 your bullet may be getting pushed further in the case while its trying to "adjust" the internals of the die to push the seating mechanism up the 30 thousandths you dialed in. I always start long and dial the number down. Always been spot on that way.

As far as your case gauge keep in mind that those are for saami spec rounds. The long .40 that i make wont gauge but they drop in and out of the barrel of the guns freely which is ultimately the gauge you want.

[DougM]

I also use the EGW die for 40S&W loads. I've encountered the same thing about the round chambering my barrel but not the chamber checker. I found out my crimp wasn't taking all the bell out of the case. Once that was corrected, they usually dropped right in. Some, maybe 5%, still had issues but for the most part, they chambered in the EGW fine.

Unless you're loading 10mm cases, I also would be concerned trying for any COAL over 1.20". To my mind, the 40S&W case just isn't long enough to comfortably crimp most bullets at that length. YMMV but make sure your components can safely support a load that long before you commit to it.

[Breacher217]

Is your Infinity barrel an AET by chance?

[cslafrain]

The BBI 40-180 no longer has a lube groove. We launched it yesterday. Just a heads up.

[thermobollocks]

You'll need a special gauge (or to detach your barrel and use it 1 at a time..) for long .40. It gets you a couple things. If your S_I __11 is tuned to feed a certain length, it makes sense to load to that length, doesn't it? If you don't know what feeds the best, you can always experiment.

The other thing it does is gets more volume for powder. This gives you a better powder selection to make major. Say I'm using Titegroup, and I can't go above X grains without getting pressure signs. I'm right on the cusp of making major. If I'm constrained to SAAMI length, I have to change powder or bullet to get it done. But, if I can seat the bullet out a bit longer, that reduces my pressure, and I can bump my load up a little bit. Finally it can also make things a bit more pleasant with 200 grain bullets for about the same reason: you can load them long.

[jtaylor996]

Is your Infinity barrel an AET by chance?

I don't think so, it's from 1997.

[jtaylor996]

The BBI 40-180 no longer has a lube groove. We launched it yesterday. Just a heads up.

That's cool. I only put in an order for 500 for testing so far. Which means I won't have a huge amount of grooved bullets laying around.

[noylj]

I have always loaded as long as the round fits the magazine, feeds, and chambers. I have never seen a bullet go crooked from feeding.

I don't care if a lube groove is hanging out--it just doesn't matter unless you drop your rounds in the dirt/sand.

The only "key" to COL is that the round must fit the magazine and feed and chamber 100%.

[jtaylor996]

Well, I loaded up a development set for major and minor today, all a 1.120" OAL.

I made up 16 different loads to test. That was no fun at all. I'm going to try to run them through a chrono and look at 2x 5 shot groups at the same time.

I don't have a ransom rest, but I got one of those el-cheapo hyskore parallax rests to use.

It looks like I'll be testing at 25yd, as police are using the other ranges at my club tomorrow.

[jtaylor996]

It seems 3.4gr titegroup is perfect for minor (a little hotter than necessary, but an order of magnitude more accurate). This still leaves lots of soot on the cases, though.

For major, it seems 4.5gr is very accurate and around 172pf. Some super minor pressure signs in the primers, but it burns a lot cleaner there. Accuracy still isn't what I'd hope for, so I may try some CFE pistol loads when that powder shows up.

[jtaylor996]

The BBI 40-180 no longer has a lube groove. We launched it yesterday. Just a heads up.

Wait, does this mean I'll need to retest my loads for the bullet without the groove?

Wouldn't not having the groove mean the bullet will be shorter if it still weighs 180gr?

[jmbaccolyte]

I wouldn't sweat it unless you're a really really good shooter. But I'm still trying to learn to shoot a handgun better after 45 years of practice. It seems the change we're talking about might align the bullet better with the bore or allow the case to hold the bullet better, but wouldn't affect performance on the target much.

Maybe I should have paid for shooting lessons.

[cslafrain]

The BBI 40-180 no longer has a lube groove. We launched it yesterday. Just a heads up.

Wait, does this mean I'll need to retest my loads for the bullet without the groove?

Wouldn't not having the groove mean the bullet will be shorter if it still weighs 180gr?

The testing we did showed a small difference in velocities. I would check it just for due diligence and peace of mind.

[jmbaccolyte]

cslafrain- What's a small difference in velocity? What kind of power factor margin do you suggest?

[2011BLDR]

I have loaded to 1.225" for .40 (and .38SC) since I started shooting 2011's in 1994, you will start having internal magazine drag at 1.240" or so. You don't need a "special" case gage you need a 10MM case gage. the .40 case will drop below flush is all.

Out.

2011BLDR

[RangerTrace]

I load to 1.20 with N320 and 1.22 with Clays using 180 Zero TMJs. My guns also love AAA Major Long at 1.180.

[Marty123]

To the OP of this thread. I have a Redding micro meter seating die in both 40 & 45. If initial setting is done correctly at first install, you should have "no" problems dialing in your desired OAL. This I do regularly on my 550b. If having problems, might help to give the OEM a call.

[nitrohuck]

I load my Xtreme 180 bullets at 1.180" (match ammo), and that works just fine in my 2011,

that said, 90% of the ammo I shoot is my practice ammo for which I use my home cast lead bullets (Lee 180gr mold) and powder coat them. Those bullets will NOT run reliably in my 2011 as they often have issues going into battery if loaded to 1.180" so I have to seat them a bit deeper down to 1.160".

[jtaylor996]

I load my Xtreme 180 bullets at 1.180" (match ammo), and that works just fine in my 2011,

that said, 90% of the ammo I shoot is my practice ammo for which I use my home cast lead bullets (Lee 180gr mold) and powder coat them. Those bullets will NOT run reliably in my 2011 as they often have issues going into battery if loaded to 1.180" so I have to seat them a bit deeper down to 1.160".

Do you size the home cast bullets before you coat them?

[nitrohuck]

I load my Xtreme 180 bullets at 1.180" (match ammo), and that works just fine in my 2011,

that said, 90% of the ammo I shoot is my practice ammo for which I use my home cast lead bullets (Lee 180gr mold) and powder coat them. Those bullets will NOT run reliably in my 2011 as they often have issues going into battery if loaded to 1.180" so I have to seat them a bit deeper down to 1.160".

Do you size the home cast bullets before you coat them?

I size them AFTER i coat them (to .401"), doing it after coating is critical. If I were to size first, then coat, my bullets would be around .403"+ in diameter... which is a definite no go in my relatively tight Shuemann barrel

[jayjay1]

Always seating out as far as possible.

I drop a bullet into the chamber and measure it out.

I´m seating the bullet only about 0,1mm back, that´s about 0,004" (in pistol rounds).

My only limiter is the mag length.

[JigSaw]

Here's my take on the "load as long as possible" thing as I understand it: early 1911/2011 pistols/mags which were designed for the .45 would not function with small frame .40 rounds unless loaded long, the added benefit was that loading long has the effect of reducing chamber pressures which can become problematic when loading fast powders behind heavy bullets. The tradeoff is that longer rounds take more powder to make the same velocity.

My thought is that if your mags/chamber/powder/bullets work at SAAMI length, there isn't any advantage to loading long. Some might say loads are more accurate when the bullet is closest to the rifling, but that's not consistent with my experience.

+1

Everything he said is spot on. I have loaded long on my .40 Trojan to make it function better. It was a nightmare until I got the rouds out around 1.177 and then settled a little above that.

If you are just worried about recoil and start pressure and all that jazz..... LESS powder = LESS recoil. If loading long doesn't help some other factory of the way the gun runs, but doing so causes you to have to use MORE grains of power than could be used of a slower powder in the same setup, or the same powder in a shorter OAL you have effectively worked backwards in the Recoil department.

I have tested the thought of "load as close to the rifling as possible" and been proven wrong on both pistols and rifles. Had a 7mag that made its best groups .055" off the grooves which is totally bass ackwards compared to "common knowledge"