mjmagee67 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hello all-- So do CZ's have slow barrels, is my question. My story---I've been shooting a S&W M&P Pro 9mm for the past year in production and decided to try something new. Enter the CZ SP-01. I took my standard load for the M&P (4.0gr N320 under a Bayou Bullets 124gr RN lit by CCI/Win primer AOL 1.125 or 4.2gr under a Montana Gold HP 124gr lit by CCI/Win primer same AOL) and ran it through the CZ I only made 118-119 PF!! Chrono'ed a few out of the same box through the M&P and made 129.8 PF. I've had to up my load to 4.3-4.4gr for the BBRN and 4.5gr for MGHP's) is this normal? I did change to Federal primers but that didn't make a difference on the M&P. The powder was out of the same 4 LBS jug too. It just seems the barrel is sloooow, Thank you Mr. Magoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES13Raven Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 How long is your M&P barrel? Longer barrel = higher velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I just chrono'd my load on both my Shadow, 4.7in barrel, and M&P Pro, 5in barrel. Load is Berry's 124HBRN-TP, 1.133 OAL, 4.0gr Titegroup, Mix Brass, S&B SPP. Avg on both is based on 10 shoots with Chrono at 3yrds from muzzle. Shadow Avg 1049 fps/130 PF M&P Avg 1061 fps/131.5 PF What I am showing is the barrel makes a difference but should not be as big of a differrnce that you are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I had an SP-01 that would give about 133 PF with a 124 plated bullet and 4.2 gr N320. It would get about 137 with WWB 115 gr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmagee67 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) The M&P is 5 inches and the SP-01 is 4.7 the difference should be negligible, not 80 fps!!!! On a side note my Kimber 9mm 1911 runs about 15 fps faster than the M&P with the same loads, obviously it also has a 5 inch barrel. Edited January 30, 2015 by mjmagee67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmbpman Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It could be numerous things. The length of the barrel probably plays into it a little bit. It could also be a differance of the diameter of the bore vs bullet sizing between the two guns and maybe the distance the bullet sits off the rifling. It would be nice to have one load for multiple guns, but I have found I end up having to tweak the loads a little for a particular gun in the collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czhase Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 CZ barrels are not 4.7" they are more like 4.5". For whatever reason they exadurate the length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastlane604 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I have a 75 Shadow and an M&P 5 inch in 9mm. The M&P is faster by about 20 fps. The IDPA rules allow you to test your ammo against the longest barreled legal pistol in your division. Most likely the testers are using a 5 inch barrel or longer in the case of the Glock 34. If you know your ammo passes PF with your M&P, take it to the match. If your ammo fails, you have the right to another test in the legal gun of your choice. Your Shadow does not have to make PF, as long as, another legal gun will. That is in IDPA. I do not know how USPSA treats this situation. Also, remember to raise the muzzle of your gun before each shot. I space that out periodically. Edited January 30, 2015 by fastlane604 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 yeah in USPSA/IPSC your ammo must make PF in YOUR gun (ie the one you are shooting in that match). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmagee67 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I'm so confused on this velocity thing, I've reloaded for years and have never seen a 80 fps difference from revolvers with 4 and 6 inch barrels. I guess I need two different loads, one for the CZ and one for everything else (S&W, Kimber, & Sig) even my P229 does better with it's 3.5 inch barrel. Bummer Edited January 30, 2015 by mjmagee67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmbpman Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It happens that way sometimes, my CZ is the same as yours. I have a 5" Spartan that would easily make minor PF. When I picked up my SP-01, I tried that same load, it wouldn't even make minor. If I remember correctly the Spartan was somewhere around 129pf while the CZ was only 123pf with the same load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsons1480 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Here's my 124 gr Bayou data http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=206023&hl=%2B124+%2Bgr+%2Bbayou+%2Bn320+%2Bcz#entry2292466 and my 135 gr Bayou data http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205087&hl= Your standard load would have made minor in my SP-01, but just barely. I ended up at 4.2 gr N320 at 1.135" OAL to average 131 PF. My Glock 34 easily made minor with 135 gr bullets at 1.125" with 3.7 gr N320. I had to load those at 1.100" in my SP-01 to make it fit, and still bumped the charge to 3.8 to make minor with a comfortable margin. Infer from all of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES13Raven Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 My Glock 17 (4.5") gets about 5 PF less than my Glock 34 (5.3") with the same load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngineerEli Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 CZ barrels are not 4.7" they are more like 4.5". For whatever reason they exadurate the length. For whatever reason CZ measures the length from the crown to the end of the feed ramp instead of the crown to the breach face, which I think is more common. I would think the difference between a 5" barrel and a 4.5" barrel could make a substantial difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronicTwitch Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I know my CZ TS has a real world 5.1" barrel vs my CZ P-01 with a 3.5" barrel. I had to bump up my 9mm minor PF load to keep from going subminor on my P-01. Delta was 50 FPS less with the 1.5" shorter barrel. Not sure if that's linear (ie, 1 inch = 33.33 FPS) , but it gives you a rough idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngineerEli Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I think that is going to have a lot to do with the powder used in the load but it is definitely somewhere to start. I would think a slower powder would make more use of the last inch of a barrel, as opposed to a faster powder that may make less of a difference in a short barrel. I believe they tend to use faster powders in ammo specially made for short barreled guns, so there is less unburnt powder (fire ball) coming out behind the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlightning Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Would the tolerance or tightness of the chamber make a difference? The m&p has tighter tolerance then CZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I have a CZ TS in 40s&w. I bought a spare barrel just to have in my spare parts. Same gun, same bullet,same powder, but consistent 25 fps difference in speed. Even with different powders. My 167pf ammo out of the new barrel is only 163pf out of old barrel. Same manufacturer of barrel as well. So I would imagine from one manufacturer to another,there could be some huge chrono differences, especialy if you factor in type of rifling as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Last time I chronoed my G34 and SP01, the difference was 0.5 PF between the two. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronicTwitch Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I have a CZ TS in 40s&w. I bought a spare barrel just to have in my spare parts. Same gun, same bullet,same powder, but consistent 25 fps difference in speed. Even with different powders. My 167pf ammo out of the new barrel is only 163pf out of old barrel. Same manufacturer of barrel as well. So I would imagine from one manufacturer to another,there could be some huge chrono differences, especialy if you factor in type of rifling as well. That is very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohsevenflhx Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I must add that I have 2 CZ TS in 40s&w, and the spare barrel. All 3 barrels chrono different. The one barrel is quite a bit slower than the other 2, but they do all chrono different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmagee67 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Short of getting a new barrel I guess I'm going to gave to deal with it. I shot a match today loved the gun, I talked to some friends the shoot CZ's and I'm .2 to .3 over their loads to get the same FP. I think I'll try some BB-135gr's I've shot them before and liked them, my friends say they work real well in the CZ's. Plus I'll use less powder, because we all know how easy powder is to come by, especially N320. Edited February 2, 2015 by mjmagee67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repins1911 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If you are shooting one of the "new" M&P barrels denoted by the one or two dimples on the underside they supposedly have a 1/10 twist rate. The CZ barrels have a 1/16. I am not stating the M&P twist rate as fact, just what I read. But if the twist rates are that different, it might have some effect on your power factor. I know twist rates are supposed to affect the stabilization of the bullet and not FPS, but it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I love BBI 125 and 147 grain 9mm bullets, but I'll warn you that you need to pay better-than-average attention with the BBI 135's. In my 75 Shadowline, they pushtest right to the mechanical limit, which is to say that at the max OAL that the gun can still go into battery normally, the base of the bullet is at or a hair past the point in the case where the case walls start to thicken. If you're not careful, you might force it past that limit and swage the base of the bullet. That's not to say they won't work. Your particular pistol might be throated just deep enough that they're not a problem, or your pistol could be like mine where it's right at the edge. You just need to make sure you're not reshaping the bullet at the ass-end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES13Raven Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The CZ barrels have a 1/16. I thought CZs have 1/10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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