ctay Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Need some stage setup advice. Trying to set up a stage where competitors have to engage targets from a wooden plank on the ground but also must advance along that plank to the next shooting position. At a level 2 match can I require advancement via the plank in the WSB (1 procedural if you don't' advance on the plank)? I would rather not have to put something there to block advancement otherwise. Thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parallax3D Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) 2.2.1 Competitor movement may be restricted or controlled through the use of physical barriers, Fault Lines, Shooting Boxes, or Off-Limits Lines.Off-limits lines or physical barriers would seem to be the only options. Edited July 23, 2014 by Parallax3D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 That's what I was worried about... ok - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'd try to set it up so that the plank is designated as part of the shooting area and, through the use of props, the shooters essentially have to keep moving along the plank to be able to engage all the targets. If you set up enough engagement points, it becomes too much of a hinderance to step off, move to the next point, step up and shoot, step off, move to the next point, step up and shoot, etc. You could also designate the sides as off-limits (RO access only), but keep in mind that 2.2.1.5 requires at least 2' of space between the shooting box/area and the off-limits area. You have to have room for them to step off the plank without zeroing the stage. Unless you put walls tight up to that plank (that could safely support a shooter who loses his/her balance), you can't force them to not step off through the WSB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Chris, This has been done before at the High Desert and Nationals in Quincy, ILL. The WSB usually includes a statement which in effect states if a shooter steps off the plank, then need to step back on the plank within 1 (or 2) steps. At Nationals, I do not believe it was well received by many shooters based on conversations during and after the match. At the HD, I believe it had to be modified from the original intent-Pat might know. I don't think 2.2.1.5 is applicable, buy I totally agree there must be space/room to step off (either by intent or accident) and to step back on the plank without penalty. As an observation from the National's match, it seemed as if more time was spent walking/running the plank to each shooting area than actual shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Put the plank over a mud pit and call it freestyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) There are no rules within the current rule book that enable you to "Force" shooters, by use of procedural penalties, to only move within a specific path of shooting area. The only way you can prod shooters into do this is create enough physical barriers outside of the shooting area that it does not make competitive sense to move outside of the shooting area. Safety and effective RO access also need to be considered. At the root of this, what is the point of forcing shooters to travel between shooting positions while staying on a plank? Please tell me what practical shooting skill you are testing by trying to force this requirement? USPSA is a game that is suppose to test your practical SHOOTING skills. Not your unpractical NON-SHOOTING running on planks skills. Edited July 23, 2014 by CHA-LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Chris, The WSB usually includes a statement which in effect states if a shooter steps off the plank, then need to step back on the plank within 1 (or 2) steps. I don't see how that could be considered legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Put the plank over a mud pit and call it freestyle I like that Not trying to create american ninja warrior or anything - just trying to keep competitors on a smaller foot print to make it a little more challenging. And a little bit of fun. Think like cooper tunnel or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 you could try something like this (stage 2 of the 2014 VA/MD section match). http://youtu.be/wU3709m0nM0?t=31s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I shot a stage at a L1 match once that used a plank on blocks about 12" off the ground. The plank was the shooting area and all shots had to be fired from within the shooting area. The plank was about 20 ft long and arranged perpendicular to the stage. To see all the targets you had to move sidways on the plank, and the amount of movement to the next view was only a step or two so jumping off the plank to move to the next view while on the ground didn't make much sense IIRC. It was fun, and the use of the plank made for an interesting stage that you don't see all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You can also just scrunch the fault lines down to about a foot wide in a section. Wood planks get slick from rain or even dew from morning grass when combined with cleats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapemeister Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yeah, like others have said set the stage up so there is no advantage to bypassing planks, and be sure to designate the planks as shooting areas. Have no other fault line in proximity of the planks to confuse things. If you don't designate the planks as shooting areas, and there are no other shooting areas designated or off limit areas, the whole course of fire is the shooting area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 As others have said just lay down a narrow shooting area using fault lines. Keep the path fairly straight from position to position so that there is no incentive to try and navigate the course by cutting corners. This will be safer than a potentially slippery plank, and it will be more challenging for the shooters because their mind will say they can navigate the course easily, while the reality will be them having a tough time keeping their feet inside the fault lines. I predict a number of procedurals for shots fired while one foot or the other is outside of the fault line. Maybe vary the distance between the lines so that as the shooter is moving they have to keep part of their attention on how wide the shooting area is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Sarge, As I tried to articulate; a plank was used at Nationals in Quincy one year and at the High Desert Classic (which was an USPSA approved match) both had the WSB delineate the ability to step back onto the plank without a procedure provided it was within a fixed number of steps. I believe the HDC stage was setup by a CRO. It can be inferred that the WSB and plank was legal. Edited July 25, 2014 by pjb45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I like to motivate correctly. Gator pit in each side. I don't like that one two step thing. Judgment calls could factor in. Use barriers and make it so they gotta stay on to shoot stage fast like said above Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 "Mine" both sides with clays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Double Tap a year or so ago had a stage like this and it was said it was a procedural for every step taken when not on the plank. If I were setting up the stage I would put short barriers upon both sides of the plank perpendicular to it at each shooting position. If the shooter wants to step off to go to the next position then they have to run around a 4'-8- barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't see how under our rules you could penalize somebody for not getting back up on a plank within a certain number of steps, however if the plank is designated as the shooting area then we CAN penalize them for each shot fired while not on the plank. After all we allow people to step outside the shooting area and even run around it without penalty as long as all shots are fired from within. I say keep it freestyle, and define the plank as the shooting area and set up vision barriers so that the only way you can see certain targets is from various locations on the plank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Run the match under IPSC rules, and deem the competitor stepping off the plank to be "taking a shortcut" (shorter in time, not distance). Here is the applicable rule: 2.2.1.5 If a COF has a passageway visibly delineated by fault lines and/or a clearly demarcated shooting area, any competitor who takes a shortcut outside the passageway and/or shooting area will incur one procedural penalty for each shot fired after beginning the shortcut. Of course, you would have to run under ALL of the IPSC rules (divisions, targets etc.) but it is one possible solution Edited July 25, 2014 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Personally I like the gator pit idea... nothing like some added "motivation" to stay on the plank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Looked into gators and they don't survive too well in the desert. Going to go with rattlers. We already have one so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 There are no rules within the current rule book that enable you to "Force" shooters, by use of procedural penalties, to only move within a specific path of shooting area. The only way you can prod shooters into do this is create enough physical barriers outside of the shooting area that it does not make competitive sense to move outside of the shooting area. Safety and effective RO access also need to be considered. At the root of this, what is the point of forcing shooters to travel between shooting positions while staying on a plank? Please tell me what practical shooting skill you are testing by trying to force this requirement? USPSA is a game that is suppose to test your practical SHOOTING skills. Not your unpractical NON-SHOOTING running on planks skills. I think the OP's intent was to have shooters travel the plank while engaging targets, not just to move from one position to the next. I agree that a pure mobility challenge doesn't belong in a USPSA stage. But engaging while on the plank is in line with shooting from a moving boat, suspended platform, floating raft, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 "Mine" both sides with clays... If I see bottles of Clays scattered around a stage, I'm holstering and grabbing every last one I can, and running for the parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 "Mine" both sides with clays...If I see bottles of Clays scattered around a stage, I'm holstering and grabbing every last one I can, and running for the parking lot. LOL! You and me both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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