buckaroo45 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Is setting the thumb safety on at "make ready" required for USPSA with a 1911 platform? Seems to me the grip safety by itself fulfills the safety on question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Is setting the thumb safety on at "make ready" required for USPSA with a 1911 platform? Seems to me the grip safety by itself fulfills the safety on question. 8.1.2.4 With respect to Rules 8.1.2.1 and 8.1.2.3, the term “safety” means the primary visible safety lever on the handgun (e.g. the thumb safety on a “1911” genre handgun). In the event of doubt, the Range Master is the final authority on this matter. This safety must be on while the firearm is loaded in the holster or loaded in any other location stated in the WSB (e.g.: table start, in a drawer, etc). in order to be in compliance with 10.5.11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Only if you want to go home early Match DQ under 10.5.11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Chuck nailed it best and first. The thumb safety is the primary safety on the 1911/2011 Edited July 19, 2014 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 The primary safety is the thumb safety not the grip safety. The grip safety dosent need to work but the thumb safety does. There is no benefit to trying to start with the safety off and is a good way to set one off coming out of the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Seems to me a loaded, cocked 1911 is in the same condition as a loaded, cocked Glock. Only diff is you can't see the hammer (striker) on the Glock. Eku says it's a good way to set one off coming out of the holster. Is it not the same for Glock? I was just curious why the seeming double standard, rule book notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The block has a safety that needs to be functional when it's holstered -- it just happens to be located on the trigger. It also has another couple of internal safeties that need to work...... Add in that the trigger pull is longer, and likely heavier -- and you're comparing apples to oranges..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Smarter minds than I associate with have spoken. It was just a 4 am question one night when I couldn't sleep which prolly explains a lot. Thx to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewiston Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Smarter minds than I associate with have spoken. It was just a 4 am question one night when I couldn't sleep which prolly explains a lot. Thx to all. Glad to read this. Your initial post disturbed me due to all the really bad possible outcomes of drawing/holstering a 1911 w/ the thumb safety off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayfk05 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The same outcome as when holstering/drawing a glock, when the trigger snags it goes of. Unless it snags on the very upper part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Pulling the trigger is what "cocks" a Glock. Chambering a round in a Glock does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3180 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Pulling the trigger is what "cocks" a Glock. Chambering a round in a Glock does not. How so? If you have an empty gun, rack the slide and pull the trigger it goes click. If you pull the trigger again without racking the slide, it does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Glocks are a striker fired gun. Hence the long trigger pull. Racking the slide resets the trigger allowing the trigger to then "cock" the striker (firing pin). The reason a Glock cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled? There is no spring tension on the striker until the trigger is pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parallax3D Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Glocks are a striker fired gun. Hence the long trigger pull. Racking the slide resets the trigger allowing the trigger to then "cock" the striker (firing pin). The reason a Glock cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled? There is no spring tension on the striker until the trigger is pulled. Maybe if they think of a Glock like shooting a rubber band from your finger it would help? Putting the rubber band on your finger is chambering a round. (No tension. If you let go it's just going to fall off of your finger.) Pulling the rubber band back and releasing it is pulling the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packeagle Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Replace Glock with the XDm who's striker is cocked when the round is chambered. This doesn't have a thumb safety. Keep the booger hook off the bang switch is all the safety I need. YMMV. Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Edited July 22, 2014 by packeagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3180 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Glocks are a striker fired gun. Hence the long trigger pull. Racking the slide resets the trigger allowing the trigger to then "cock" the striker (firing pin). The reason a Glock cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled? There is no spring tension on the striker until the trigger is pulled. That makes sense, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelie777 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I recently had a shooter fail to put his primary safety on when holstering between strings. After I had him ULSC and then politely DQ'ed him, he tried to argue the point about the grip safety. I showed him the rule book and he finally understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I recently had a shooter fail to put his primary safety on when holstering between strings. After I had him ULSC and then politely DQ'ed him, he tried to argue the point about the grip safety. I showed him the rule book and he finally understood. That is part of the reason I unload between strings if changing positions. I am going to make ready at the new start position anyway , so may as well unload before moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Yes, "finger control" is the ultimate safety. The equipment, however, contributes to the potential for AD. John Browning's 1911 design has a tradition sear. The hammer is fully cocked, and all it takes is a pretty short press of the trigger to release it. They're often adjusted to have only a very short pretravel, and the pull weight is often around 2 to 2-1/2 pounds. The sear can be released by dropping the gun. 1911's are usually holstered "cocked and locked" (safety on) for all these reasons. Gaston Glock's design, on the other hand, has a striker instead of a hammer. When you run the slide, it pulls the the striker backward against the striker spring, but only part way, not enough to set off a round. What you're doing when pulling the trigger is pulling the striker the rest of the way back, increasing the spring tension, until it releases and moves forward against the primer. That cocking of the striker is where a lot of the trigger movement is coming from, and it's both more trigger movement and more trigger pull than the 1911 (at least in stock guns - the pull weight can be lessened, but it'll never be as sharp or light as a 1911 can be). There's also the trigger safety, which has to be pressed before the trigger can move backward, and two internal safeties that won't let the striker fall if the gun is dropped without the trigger being activated. Hence the term "safe-action" from Glock. Okay, more than y'all wanted to know, but it's fun learning about our toys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelie777 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 As described by ChuckS. Just as he stated. Hate to DQ a shooter for failing to do this, but I have. Safety is paramount. Also, the grip safety on many 1911 platforms in completion has been neutralized, and you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 OK, this horse is almost dead but there's one quiver left; Is the Springer XDM trigger / safety in the same category as the Glock? I'm a 1911 / revo type (some say not so much on the 1911) and I'm a neophyte on plastic guns tho I have an XDM 9/40 Open gun. Hey, I'm a fat old guy, bad eyes, poor hands and a cheapskate so the Springer appealed to me. This whole thread is the result of a 4 am question. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) There is no spring tension on the striker until the trigger is pulled. Not true. There is some tension, perhaps enough to pop a primer, but likely not. They are at something like half cock when a round is in the chamber. A 1911 grip safety has basically no value in preventing the gun from firing unintentionally because it does absolutely nothing to keep the sear from slipping off the hammer hooks. Relying on any mechanical safety is pretty unsafe, but relying on the 1911 grip safety is especially unsafe. Edited August 16, 2014 by twodownzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboy69 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 9 out of 10 on an open gun the grip safety is pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now