STI Trojan is killing me with feed jams

[kirbinster]

Let me start out with saying I love my STI trojan 9mm pistol. Its is super accurate and I shoot it better than any gun I own. My problem is while it works perfectly at the range, it is getting worse and worse at matches. I am getting so many feed failures that it is killing my game. I shot an IDPA match yesterday, 10 stages and on eight of them I had at least one feed failure. I elected to reshoot a stage because the SO started me wrong on one of those failures even though I shot well, hoping to improve without the feed failure. Well that was a mistake because on the reshoot it failed even worse. So, that actually made 9 out of 11 stages where it failed.

What seems to be happening is the round nose dives and jams and locks things up really tightly. There are times when it is not too bad and I can just give the back of the slide a hard slap and it will go into battery. Other times it jams so tight I can't pull the mag and have to ultimately get it to slide lock and then it is still a struggle to remove the magazine. To say this thing killed my times would be an understatement. At a loss as to what to do.

I had my gunsmith look at it a while ago and he said the tension on the extractor was a little low so he raise it, but I think that has actually made it worse. Yesterday I was using six different 10 round mags: two each of Wilson ETM, Tripp Cobra and Dawson. I saw a slight issue with one of the Wilsons, but other than that I could not narrow it down to any specific brand acting worse than the others.

I have the Dawson Precision CRP package with the IDPA legal extended mag release. Some people said it might have to do with that, but I am skeptical.

All ideas welcomed. Thanks.

PS - if it matters I am using factory round nose 124 grain ammo.

Edited June 29, 2014 by kirbinster

[CDPMatt]

Wow. Try different ammo and see if it runs. Borrow someone's ammo who loads specifically for a 1911. If that doesn't work then sell it and get one that does. A Dan Wesson PM9 is a good choice and I've had good luck with mine and Dawson mags. Life is too short for guns that don't run.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3gungeezer]

Please do not take this the wrong way but if the gun truly does run "at the range" and not at the match then it is a user induced failure. A gun doesn't know it is at a match but you do. Could you be changing your grip under match pressure? maybe limp wrist.

[kirbinster]

Well it was at a tier 3 IDPA match, so they chronoed the ammo and it tested fine. I just tried the gun with a Wilson mag and snap caps. I loaded it up with 10 rounds and did a slide lock reload. I then manually cycled the gun and twice on the third or fourth round the slide only closed about 1/4" and the head of the bullet was on the ramp just below the barrel entrance.

Please excuse the crappy iphone picture, but here is an example:

When it is this type of failure a good slap to the back of the slide fixes the issue, but sometimes the bullet head is much lower and it locks everything up.

[polymerfeelsweirdman]

EGW high mag catch to get the mag up higher?

[kirbinster]

Please do not take this the wrong way but if the gun truly does run "at the range" and not at the match then it is a user induced failure. A gun doesn't know it is at a match but you do. Could you be changing your grip under match pressure? maybe limp wrist.

Not taking it the wrong way, there is a difference though. At the range I never slam the mags in like at a match and I never fully load the mags either, typically no more than five rounds at once. I think that makes the difference.

[kirbinster]

EGW high mag catch to get the mag up higher?

What does EGW stand for, not sure I understand???

[The Antichrome]

Thats what Trojans do, although its more common in .40

Its the feedwall, it needs to be re-cut into a feedramp.

A different bullet profile might help too.

[Rob01]

My .40 Trojan was doing it with full mags. Tried a higher mag catch and same. Different length ammo out to 1.200". Same. Sent it to Tripp to get their reliability package. It's there now so when I get it back in a week or so I will let you know how it works.

And EGW is a company who makes a mag catch that holds the magazine higher. http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/EGW-HD-Higher-Mag-Catch-Blued-P1357.aspx

[lee blackman]

I'm not sure from your post if this is a new gun with an issue, or an old gun that previously worked for a long time and is having a new issue. I'm assuming the later.

I read that its started out running great, and is progressively getting worse from you initial statement. Deductive logic... The gun working fine prior, with no variables changed, and a recent issue that is growing in frequency tells me something is wearing out or getting weak. This of course being prior to the "extractor tension" adjustment your gunsmith made.

I would first ask when the last time the magazine spring were replaced before I even started trouble shooting. IF they are over a year old, then it might be time. Stick with one brand of magazine that worked before. Try to avoid frustration, limit the variables, and use deductive logic.

If your weren't having extraction issues, then its nothing to do with your extractor. In fact if your "gunsmith" over tightened your extractor, the rim of the case may now have issues getting under it. So yea, it probably did make your issue worse. If your going to send it to anyone, call Dawson and send it back to him. If it turns out to be a new gun issue, call Dawson.

Edited June 29, 2014 by lee blackman

[atbarr]

https://www.egwguns.com/

EGW high mag catch to get the mag up higher?

What does EGW stand for, not sure I understand???

[sbo76]

send it back to sti. they have awesome customer service and have experienced gunsmiths in the warranty department. make sure you send a mag or 2 with it so they can test them.

[kirbinster]

BTW, what is the correct extractor tension on the 9mm STI Trojan, I am wondering if what my gunsmith set it to is what is making it worse.

[twodownzero]

There really is no measuring tension of an extractor. It has to be tight enough to work and loose enough to let the gun feed.

Call STI and talk to David Cupp--they'll fix it.

But before you do, how old is your recoil spring and what weight are you using? My gun feeds fine with a 10 lb recoil spring and it doesn't even have a ramped barrel!

[cslafrain]

#1 - Change the extractor to an Aftec - you will be glad you did in the long run - eliminates multiple tunings of the extractor

#2 - make sure you ammo is loaded to 1.15. 9mm has to make a heck of a jump due to the feed ramp and a short load length

[L3324temp]

My .40 Trojan was doing it with full mags. Tried a higher mag catch and same. Different length ammo out to 1.200". Same. Sent it to Tripp to get their reliability package. It's there now so when I get it back in a week or so I will let you know how it works.

And EGW is a company who makes a mag catch that holds the magazine higher. http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/EGW-HD-Higher-Mag-Catch-Blued-P1357.aspx

My 9mm has be 100% flawless for thousands of rounds but my new Trojan 40 won't run. It does the same thing as yours. It went back to STI for the issue and they improved it, but it will still do it 4-5 times during a 150rd match.

[Rob01]

My .40 Trojan was doing it with full mags. Tried a higher mag catch and same. Different length ammo out to 1.200". Same. Sent it to Tripp to get their reliability package. It's there now so when I get it back in a week or so I will let you know how it works.

And EGW is a company who makes a mag catch that holds the magazine higher. http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/EGW-HD-Higher-Mag-Catch-Blued-P1357.aspx

My 9mm has be 100% flawless for thousands of rounds but my new Trojan 40 won't run. It does the same thing as yours. It went back to STI for the issue and they improved it, but it will still do it 4-5 times during a 150rd match.

I almost sent it back to STI but after hearing such good things about Virgil Tripp and his work and seeing as I was using their mags I figured I would send it to them. Speaking with Aaron Tripp he seemed very confident they could not only make it run 100% but fix some inherent problems. Will let you know how it works when I get it back.

[dansedgli]

Do any of your mags runs spacers in the back to suit 9mm?

[tbarker13]

My .40 Trojan was doing it with full mags. Tried a higher mag catch and same. Different length ammo out to 1.200". Same. Sent it to Tripp to get their reliability package. It's there now so when I get it back in a week or so I will let you know how it works.

And EGW is a company who makes a mag catch that holds the magazine higher. http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/EGW-HD-Higher-Mag-Catch-Blued-P1357.aspx

My 9mm has be 100% flawless for thousands of rounds but my new Trojan 40 won't run. It does the same thing as yours. It went back to STI for the issue and they improved it, but it will still do it 4-5 times during a 150rd match.

I almost sent it back to STI but after hearing such good things about Virgil Tripp and his work and seeing as I was using their mags I figured I would send it to them. Speaking with Aaron Tripp he seemed very confident they could not only make it run 100% but fix some inherent problems. Will let you know how it works when I get it back.

My .40 Trojan had a similar issue. Went away when I installed one of the EGW high mag catches.

http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/EGW-HD-Higher-Mag-Catch-Blued-P1357.aspx

[kirbinster]

Yes the mags have spacers in the back for 9mm. As far as the recoil spring, I am not sure of the weight - its whatever it came from Dawson Precision with. I have about 2,000 rounds through the gun.

[Rob01]

My .40 Trojan was doing it with full mags. Tried a higher mag catch and same. Different length ammo out to 1.200". Same. Sent it to Tripp to get their reliability package. It's there now so when I get it back in a week or so I will let you know how it works.

And EGW is a company who makes a mag catch that holds the magazine higher. http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/EGW-HD-Higher-Mag-Catch-Blued-P1357.aspx

My 9mm has be 100% flawless for thousands of rounds but my new Trojan 40 won't run. It does the same thing as yours. It went back to STI for the issue and they improved it, but it will still do it 4-5 times during a 150rd match.

I almost sent it back to STI but after hearing such good things about Virgil Tripp and his work and seeing as I was using their mags I figured I would send it to them. Speaking with Aaron Tripp he seemed very confident they could not only make it run 100% but fix some inherent problems. Will let you know how it works when I get it back.

My .40 Trojan had a similar issue. Went away when I installed one of the EGW high mag catches.

http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/EGW-HD-Higher-Mag-Catch-Blued-P1357.aspx

Didn't help mine.

[bountyhunter]

I have a 9mm Trojan which feeds perfectly. 9mm single stack mags are prone to nose dive feeding because the 9mm case is tapered, not straight like .40 and .45. One mag maker built a "mini feed ramp" into the front edge of the mag shell on the 9mm mags to keep the nose of the round up and improve feeding. One obvious cause of nose dive is weak mag springs.

Also: are these 9mm mags or .38S mags modified? You might try some actual 9mm mags (with no spacer) and see if they feed better since that is what it's designed to use. All of mine are Mec Gar 9mm and have no problems but they are 9 round magazines.

I shoot factory 115 FMJ ammo like winchester white box and sellier and bellott and never have an issue.

It is possible that yours might benefit from having the top of the feed ramp rounded over a shade where it goes into the throat, but do that LAST as barrel steel can not be replaced after it is removed.

make sure you have a proper 9mm extractor and that the lower edge of the extractor lip is "radiused" to allow smooth feeding up.

Changing the mag catch might make the mag ride higher in the frame which MIGHT help.

Might try smoothing the inside edges of the feed lips on the mags so the round can slide out easier.

Edited June 29, 2014 by bountyhunter

[bountyhunter]

Please do not take this the wrong way but if the gun truly does run "at the range" and not at the match then it is a user induced failure. A gun doesn't know it is at a match but you do. Could you be changing your grip under match pressure? maybe limp wrist.

Not taking it the wrong way, there is a difference though. At the range I never slam the mags in like at a match and I never fully load the mags either, typically no more than five rounds at once. I think that makes the difference.

Snap caps do not cycle like actual ammo. On a cranky feeder, you have to isolate where the hang up is. In such a case, I might recommend:

Fill magazine with whatever ammo you use and "slow cycle" ammo through by hand and see where you feel drag. Keep muzzle safe and be careful to not touch trigger. You should be able to see if there is drag when the rim tries to go up under the extractor or if it is dragging coming out of the magazine feed lips or just brick walling on the feed ramp.

I did have one gun (Para) where the barrel was cut so that the feed ramp was just too high and too steep and it would not feed, I ended up recutting the feed ramp to lower the entry but you shouldn't have to. You should be able to figure out why the feed is hanging up.

Another suggestion:

You MIGHT be able to get the nose of the round to ride a shade higher in the mag by opening up the feed lip spacing a touch. may help.

Edited June 29, 2014 by bountyhunter

[bountyhunter]

Yes the mags have spacers in the back for 9mm. As far as the recoil spring, I am not sure of the weight - its whatever it came from Dawson Precision with. I have about 2,000 rounds through the gun.

I believe recoil should be 13# or maybe a shade higher if hot ammo.

[bountyhunter]

There really is no measuring tension of an extractor. It has to be tight enough to work and loose enough to let the gun feed.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/733842/weigand-extractor-tension-gage-set-semi-automatic-pistol-with-exposed-extractor

Weigand makes gauges for measuring extractor tension, used along with an accurate trigger pull gauge device. Slide the brass gauge up the breech face into the same position the roud would be. Then pull down using the trigger pull gauge and measure the force it takes to pull the gauge out from under the extractor. I keep my 9mm Trojan set at about 15 - 20 Ounces.