RO Suspected of Cheating in USPSA Matches

[Fast351]

Actually Paul's -2/+2 activities took place at higher (sectional and area level matches) - he may have done some at locals but no one seems to care too much about that. Given that the investigation is been concluded it doesn't matter if any of the other shooters knew or not. What's done is done and it can't be reversed. Even though steel challenge is a tiny subset of USPSA I did hear "Don't +2 me, bro" on more than one occasion this past weekend.

I was an RO at the Tactical Shotgun Championship in Minnesota this weekend, and while it certainly wasn't the primary conversation, most of the competitors seemed to be at least aware of the basic gist of the story. The match director went through extensive steps to make sure that the electronic scoring for our match was beyond reproach, including witnessing the data transfer from the individual nooks to the master system, printed copies of the results given to random competitors to make sure the scores were not changed overnight, etc.

If anything positive can come of this, at least it'll highlight the fact that honest ROs are not out to cheat the system.

[cferree]

Will someone please post links to the "official" letter(s)/announcement(s). Due to work restrictions (I work on secure projects requiring frequent background checks), I do not have a Facebook page. I do read the GA Club pages because I don't have to log on to see them, so I hope I can see the pages with the investigation results.

Thanks

[ZackJones]

Will someone please post links to the "official" letter(s)/announcement(s). Due to work restrictions (I work on secure projects requiring frequent background checks), I do not have a Facebook page. I do read the GA Club pages because I don't have to log on to see them, so I hope I can see the pages with the investigation results.

Thanks

Post #300 in this thread has it: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=197309&page=12#entry2193447

[NewColonial]

Yeah, I am not liking how the means of communications have been on FB and Doodie. Not official in the least. Borderline "close our eyes and hope it goes away".

I am most disappointed that USPSA chooses BE and Facebook to make announcements rather than the USPSA site and newsletter.

[cferree]

Will someone please post links to the "official" letter(s)/announcement(s). Due to work restrictions (I work on secure projects requiring frequent background checks), I do not have a Facebook page. I do read the GA Club pages because I don't have to log on to see them, so I hope I can see the pages with the investigation results.

Thanks

Post #300 in this thread has it: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=197309&page=12#entry2193447

Thanks! I must have read over it.

[justaute]

-- I'm sure most A6 shooters are great people, not unlike those of USPSA membership.

-- Given USPSA's current management structure and remuneration, I wouldn't even begin to consider running.

Watching a few kids from my alma mater competing at the US Track & Field Championship on TV...I threw javelin in college and played/coached volleyball.

The more I think about and play my other sports, the more disappointed I am about the game of USPSA. To be fair, in the 3 years since I shot my first USPSA match, I have met some great people. However, watching from the sidelines of how USPSA manages this organization has really changed the way I view USPSA. Having advised, invested, and operated large companies, I do see the potential of this organization. Alas, the combination of this cheating scandal, underwhelming experience at 2013 Production Nations, and deficient USPSA administration, leaves me aghast.

USPSA really is a fun, addicting game. It's a volunteer-sport, but it doesn't mean it can't be professionally operated. At our local matches, I try to help as much as possible, from helping set-up/-down to designing stages. If USPSA turns-out to be basically just a collection of local shooting evens to satisfy people who own firearms, then that's ok. If we want USPSA to be more expansive than that, well, I truly believe meaningful changes need to be made.

Having read many of the postings on A6's FB page, and a few others, makes me wonder whether there are capable professionals within our community who'd be willing to help. There were certainly a lot of unprofessional, un-civil postings in connection with the cheating scandal.

"Sometimes, incompetence is useful. It helps you keep an open mind."

Now I don't know if all that we have read is from A6 members. Some folks like to invoke a riot here and there. But I can assure you most like 97% of A6 are really some of the best people you will ever meet. Just thinking sounds like you may be a strong canadate. Hint, hint. Lol

Edited June 30, 2014 by justaute

[Xhris]

Yeah, I am not liking how the means of communications have been on FB and Doodie. Not official in the least. Borderline "close our eyes and hope it goes away".

I am most disappointed that USPSA chooses BE and Facebook to make announcements rather than the USPSA site and newsletter.

Would you of been equally disappointed if they ignored everything on Facebook / doodie, and did nothing until someone filed a formal complaint?

MOST people in this thread are talking out of both sides of their mouth here, saying its OK for the complaint to be on Facebook, to demand an investigation based on doodie, but its not ok for the USPSA to respond in the same way.

[PKT1106]

Yeah, I am not liking how the means of communications have been on FB and Doodie. Not official in the least. Borderline "close our eyes and hope it goes away".

I am most disappointed that USPSA chooses BE and Facebook to make announcements rather than the USPSA site and newsletter.

Would you of been equally disappointed if they ignored everything on Facebook / doodie, and did nothing until someone filed a formal complaint?

MOST people in this thread are talking out of both sides of their mouth here, saying its OK for the complaint to be on Facebook, to demand an investigation based on doodie, but its not ok for the USPSA to respond in the same way.

No. I would not have because FB and Doodie are not official channels. Anyone can put anything on those sites. It is up to the membership to keep the HQ/Admin honest and doing what needs to be done. This means filing a complaint if needed. I would have no issue with the admin telling the affected shooters to file a formal complaint.

It's not OK for the organization to respond the same way, through 3rd party websites. They need to hold themselves to a higher standard. They want to appear professional, but not putting things on the USPSA website, in an official capacity, is not a professional, honest way of solving an issue.

Edited July 1, 2014 by PKT1106

[vluc]

I agree with Randy. There is still nothing on the USPSA web page, but tons of stuff elsewhere. I have yet to be officially informed of anything, my AD is working on getting me the disavowed shooter list as the seizure individual shoots a great deal in the Western PA Section, the cheater did some of his nasty at the A8 held in the Western PA Section.

I am not optimistic. Like America - I love my country, hate my government. Love USPSA, not liking the leadership right now.

[NewColonial]

The leadership's lackadaisical response to this issue further convinces me to stick with local matches and not spend money or time on majors. They seem not overly concerned with the integrity of the competition. However minor, PVH's power trip affects all shooters' rankings no matter what Area they are in.

I do appreciate that they investigated quickly. I don't appreciate that they then hushed it up.

[motosapiens]

I do appreciate that they investigated quickly. I don't appreciate that they then hushed it up.

Hushed it up? Every shooter in america knows all about it.

[mcb]

I do appreciate that they investigated quickly. I don't appreciate that they then hushed it up.

Hushed it up? Every shooter in america knows all about it.

But nearly all found out about this scandal from a multitude of sources EXCEPT from an official USPSA source. The communication from the National Organization has be negligent at best throughout this whole mess.

[NewColonial]

I do appreciate that they investigated quickly. I don't appreciate that they then hushed it up.

Hushed it up? Every shooter in america knows all about it.

A lot of shooters know about, not every. And the ones that know about it, do so thanks to doodie and Facebook. USPSA still keeping it hushed.

[ktm300]

From a human behavior stand point it would be very odd that someone would engage in this type of risky behavior repeatedly, over perhaps years, and do it for personal satisfaction alone, and not convey his actions to those he his helping in some manner at some point in time. After all, it was friends of his that he was subtracting time off of right?

I sure would like to see the study you are basing your assumptions on.

Just to be clear, I don't have a dog in this fight. I knew PVH because I work and shoot a few big matches in the southeast and I would see him 3 or 4 times a year. I don't know any of the shooters involved any more than that.

What I saw was someone who liked to be in control. If you ever shot one of his stages you know what I mean. How much more control can you have than making the match go the way you want it to for your friends, and people you don't like for whatever reason? I think that is the basis for his actions.

Of course your guess and mine are equally valid.

[NewColonial]

What I saw was someone who liked to be in control. If you ever shot one of his stages you know what I mean. How much more control can you have than making the match go the way you want it to for your friends, and people you don't like for whatever reason? I think that is the basis for his actions.

^^^ This.

What's most appalling to me is the fact that MD's and AD's let him get away with making "his rules" and tweaking the WSB to suit him. It was no secret how he ran the stages he was on, but this too was "hushed" for years.

[ktm300]

What's most appalling to me is the fact that MD's and AD's let him get away with making "his rules" and tweaking the WSB to suit him. It was no secret how he ran the stages he was on, but this too was "hushed" for years.

I don't agree with that at all.

[NewColonial]

What's most appalling to me is the fact that MD's and AD's let him get away with making "his rules" and tweaking the WSB to suit him. It was no secret how he ran the stages he was on, but this too was "hushed" for years.

I don't agree with that at all.

Don't agree with what?

He didn't make his own rules?

Folks knew he did it?

He got away with it?

MD's knew about it?

[ktm300]

What's most appalling to me is the fact that MD's and AD's let him get away with making "his rules" and tweaking the WSB to suit him. It was no secret how he ran the stages he was on, but this too was "hushed" for years.

I don't agree with that at all.

Don't agree with what?

He didn't make his own rules?

Folks knew he did it?

He got away with it?

MD's knew about it?

If I had been shooting on one of his stages and he broke the rules I would have talked to him and if not satisfied I would have taken it to the RM. He was a bit of a bully the way he ran a stage. As to making his own rules, I can't make that claim. Can you come up with something specific on how he was running a stage that was not allowed in the rule book, other than the obvious?

I shot, with him as the CRO on a stage, very few times as normally I was working the match and shot on RO day. I never shot on his squad as far as I remember.

The only one I have a strong memory from was at the SC match 3 years ago in Columbia. He made a speech about "how he ran a stage". Nothing illegal about it, as long as he made the same speech to every squad. I don't remember thinking "wow that's not in the rule book".

[motosapiens]

I do appreciate that they investigated quickly. I don't appreciate that they then hushed it up.

Hushed it up? Every shooter in america knows all about it.

But nearly all found out about this scandal from a multitude of sources EXCEPT from an official USPSA source. The communication from the National Organization has be negligent at best throughout this whole mess.

I guess I'm not that concerned if an organization communicates breaking news via facebook (where much of the conversation was taking place). I personally don't read the junk mail I get from uspsa, and their website (like most websites) is typically woefully out of date when it comes to news releases. That's probably the same reason I get my daily news from the newspaper instead of from government press releases.

Yeah, it would probably be better and more professional to have spam email go out to all members, but that seems nitpicky enough that I don't really care. I certainly have never thought of posting something on facebook as 'hushing it up'.

[Nimitz]

Does anyone know if he was an RO at the 2013 Area 6 match (St Augustine) or this year's Area 6?

[Sarge]

He was a bit of a bully the way he ran a stage.

That in itself should have been a red flag.

[Flexmoney]

What's most appalling to me is the fact that MD's and AD's let him get away with making "his rules" and tweaking the WSB to suit him. It was no secret how he ran the stages he was on, but this too was "hushed" for years.

I don't agree with that at all.

Don't agree with what?

He didn't make his own rules?

Folks knew he did it?

He got away with it?

MD's knew about it?

If you knew, why didn't you file a complaint with NROI??? If not you, then others knew, right? Why did you/they keep it "hushed up"?

When I go shoot matches, I know how the WSB ought to read. I can tell if a CRO starts to adlib. I call them out on it. I've never had to take it past the Range Master. Nip that stuff in the bud.

[NewColonial]

If you knew, why didn't you file a complaint with NROI??? If not you, then others knew, right? Why did you/they keep it "hushed up"?

The time I recall was my 2nd major match, several years ago, and I didn't know better. I recall others arguing with him but nothing came of it as far as I knew. We eventually just shot. Since then when I've approached "his" stages, I've simply thought, "Oh, here's that a_-hole again" let's get it over with so I can get back to having fun. (As I told my AD, he's one of only 2 true jerks I've meant in the past four years of shooting.)

Why did others keep it hushed up, especially those who saw it more frequently and are more experienced? That's my question too. Maybe he didn't pull it with "super squads" who he didn't think he could bully.

But it's moot now. At least people on A6 FB page and Doodie know he's been banned, maybe Phil will take the time to tell the rest of the membership some day.

[AWLAZS]

We travel down to the VAMD match. If we bring new folks with us we warn them about how he runs his stages. He had his own pre WSB stage briefing. Dont't put a mag on his table while you sign a scoresheet.

[Sarge]

We travel down to the VAMD match. If we bring new folks with us we warn them about how he runs his stages. He had his own pre WSB stage briefing. Dont't put a mag on his table while you sign a scoresheet.

really? Good riddance !!