RAZZ Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm running a local 3-gun match, and a shooter posed a question to me I was hoping you all could help me with. In my match announcement, I stated to everyone that penetrator, AP etc ammo was prohibited--basically if the bullet attracts a magnet, leave it at home. I had one shooter ask about the bi-metal bullets commonly used in AK type ammo, as he stated it does not use a steel core--simply a mixture of soft steel in the jacket. I don't shoot Soviet ammo, so I'm not too familiar with bi-metal ammo. Can I make an exception for this stuff, or is it still a no-go? Steel will be MGMs shot at no less than 85 yards. I don't want to exclude anyone, but I also don't want there to be any possibility that someone starts shooting holes in my steel. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No way will it penetrate steel at 85 yards from an AK...steel core is a different animal though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Magnet test. If a magnet will pick it up by the point then no go. The bi-metal bullet is a steel jackt that is copper washed. While it might not go through an mgm target at distance it will dimple the target and cause early replacements of your targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I have shot a bunch of steel jacket/bi-metal ammo (Wolf .223) at my MGM targets. They don't have holes in them. In dry areas, it is a fire concern from a sparking standpoint. I believe that most match directors just say "If it attracts a magnet, it is a no no" because it is easy to enforce. Saying bi metal jackets are ok but steel core is not takes more effort to enforce, thus slowing things down and if steel core gets through, it could ricochet and hurt someone as well as damaging the targets. Just my opinion. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Bimetal 308 will make swiss cheese outa ar500. Bimetal AK rounds will dimple it. Bimetal 223 will at least dimple, may make holes, depending on the distance and velocity. 223 penetrators go right thru. Nothing with steel projectiles is allowed at RM3G. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZ Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Thank you everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarmyaviator Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 It isn't just Soviet, the US Army used bi-metal bullets in M2 30 cal and 7.62 NATO. Winchester .308 FMJs are also bi-metal, item # WB762147N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZ Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Good to know, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Just say no to any steel in the bullet. Bad for targets.Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Just say no to any steel in the bullet. Bad for targets. Pat And less arguing about ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I know the Greek .30-06 ball attracts a magnet, but it was allowed at TX MG in 2012. They used ferrier's clippers to cut through a bullet to make sure they weren't steel core. You'd have to ask the MD if they messed up any of the targets. He goes by General Chang on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Well I have taken a different approach at the local matches I run at OKC Gun Club ( 20-40 shooters per match). For the last 2 years I have specifically allowed Bi-Metal anything. I allow M855 ball ammo ( yes the ones with the little steel penetrator) pretty much anything except AP....which is darn hard to find by the way...for anything, and usually cost around $3-5 per round! Our MGM flash targets and Mini poppers ( used from 100-300 yards) have survived 2 full years of use without any holes, deep divits, cracks or anything! The same for the "C" zones I cut out of AR-500 plate, although they didn't get as much use as the flashers. None are "Swiss Cheesed", "dimpled or holed", and no .223 penetrator "went right through". My feeling is that if your AR-500 plates and flashers are getting the kind of abuse listed above, your steel supplier has been misrepresenting his product and it ISN'T AR-500! Or your range finder for set up is A.F.U.ed!!! BTW for the OKC shooters, Mike and Wil might be doing one in February...not sure about that yet, but we will pick up our regular match schedule in MARCH...so there WILL be a March 34-gun at OKC! Edited January 4, 2014 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Well I have taken a different approach at the local matches I run at OKC Gun Club ( 20-40 shooters per match). For the last 2 years I have specifically allowed Bi-Metal anything. I allow M855 ball ammo ( yes the ones with the little steel penetrator) pretty much anything except AP....which is darn hard to find by the way...for anything, and usually cost around $3-5 per round! Our MGM flash targets and Mini poppers ( used from 100-300 yards) have survived 2 full years of use without any holes, deep divits, cracks or anything! The same for the "C" zones I cut out of AR-500 plate, although they didn't get as much use as the flashers. None are "Swiss Cheesed", "dimpled or holed", and no .223 penetrator "went right through". My feeling is that if your AR-500 plates and flashers are getting the kind of abuse listed above, your steel supplier has been misrepresenting his product and it ISN'T AR-500! Or your range finder for set up is A.F.U.ed!!! BTW for the OKC shooters, Mike and Wil might be doing one in February...not sure about that yet, but we will pick up our regular match schedule in MARCH...so there WILL be a March 34-gun at OKC! Not everyone is using quality steel, particularly at local matches. Heck, some stuff that's used locally, is just some real thick mild steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 If it's just mild steel used it's gonna get destroyed pretty quick anyway. Xm193 will do more damage due to the velocity than something like tula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not sure of the extact brand but I had an MGM auto popper dimpled with the shape of a bullet side ways from a bi metal hollow point. Think it was Tula or Wolf. When you are paying for the targets yourself out of pocket for the most part you want your stuff to last. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not all steel targets are AR500, but we'd still like to make them last as long as possible. Here is a penetrator stuck in a 550 yard target: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigS. Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Do you know what the grade of steel is in the picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well I have taken a different approach at the local matches I run at OKC Gun Club ( 20-40 shooters per match). For the last 2 years I have specifically allowed Bi-Metal anything. I allow M855 ball ammo ( yes the ones with the little steel penetrator) pretty much anything except AP....which is darn hard to find by the way...for anything, and usually cost around $3-5 per round! Our MGM flash targets and Mini poppers ( used from 100-300 yards) have survived 2 full years of use without any holes, deep divits, cracks or anything! The same for the "C" zones I cut out of AR-500 plate, although they didn't get as much use as the flashers. None are "Swiss Cheesed", "dimpled or holed", and no .223 penetrator "went right through". My feeling is that if your AR-500 plates and flashers are getting the kind of abuse listed above, your steel supplier has been misrepresenting his product and it ISN'T AR-500! Or your range finder for set up is A.F.U.ed!!! BTW for the OKC shooters, Mike and Wil might be doing one in February...not sure about that yet, but we will pick up our regular match schedule in MARCH...so there WILL be a March 34-gun at OKC! EXACTLY, my experience. The Bi metal is ALL I shoot at my targets. Worst thing I see is Sparks at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I shoot my personal targets with anything I can find. No holes or dimples in the true AR 500 stuff. I do have a few that are banged up pretty bad that I know were not AR500. Part of the issue is in the cutting process. All my MGM targets and c zones I have do not show much wear on them. I shoot all calibers at them from 100yds and further. My main ammo for last few months has been Wolf gr jhp. Saving the XM193 for majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 At the last Ft. Benning match, we shot Larues at 25-30 yards with a M249 SAW. Each person got 16 rounds of M855. For sure, not all 16 of each competitors rounds impacted a target, but there were plenty of hits (there were three targets, all you had to do was knock one of them down and shoot the gun dry). At the end of the match, I went and looked at the targets, they were no holes in them, no craters, only slight dimples. I was amazed that they took that many hits and looked as good as they did. I am only passing this along in the spirit of all target steel not being created equal, I am not saying that we should start shooting steel up close with steel core. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Get MGM steel and let we rip tater chip. My MGM B/C zone has had its ass kicked with wolf .308 and .223 and they only thing the take it out was when a tree fell on it and broke the 2"x4" that holds it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSnSC Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 All targets are not created equal. We shoot our steel from Spectre Targets with bi metal with no ill effects. I have some steel from another major manufacturer that has not held up near as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Do you know what the grade of steel is in the picture? I want to say AR200, but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Get MGM steel and let we rip tater chip. My MGM B/C zone has had its ass kicked with wolf .308 and .223 and they only thing the take it out was when a tree fell on it and broke the 2"x4" that holds it up. It was my MGM auto poppers where the bi metal bullets left the weird shaped craters. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSnSC Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Ditto. Edited January 6, 2014 by LSnSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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