Beretta 1301 Comp

[OscarMike]

Who do you 1301 guys use to mill your receiver

[gnhowell1]

Pendergraft Gun Works in Chapel Hill, NC

[Jadeslade]

Who do you 1301 guys use to mill your receiver

Well I guess those guys are up to speed on the milling. Nice to know. It's aluminum. Most people do their own, by hand. With Dremel, files, and sandpaper. Not sure if anybody has CNC setting for this, but it really is feel thing, some fingers are not sausages or spider fingers. Some stubby and some very dextrous. That's why by hand. There is one issue with the serial number. Any one who can laser etch or mill the number to the required ATF depth can move it somewhere else on the receiver and then you can Dremel to your heart's content. The hand guard needs smoothing also. See the pictures in this thread. Go all the way to the beginning and check the photos out. Good luck. DVC

[Dustbuster1]

there is another serial number under the handguard, I used a set of metal stamps from harbor freight to re stamp mine in on the rcvr.

[Jadeslade]

The serial number on the barrel is nice, but does not count for ATF. Those metal stamps work good? I was just going to engrave mine with a template.

[usmc90]

Now for the real question. Who is moding the inner workings (ie lightening the bolt , changing actions, opening or closing ports? )

[xtremekramer]

Had a 2 gun match today (pistol/shotgun). The 1301 ran great. The last stage was a SG only stage. Ran through the stage and the SG locked open after my last shot. They said show clear. Rolled the gun over and put my chamber flag in. Put the SG away. Got home tonight and was cleaning everything up. Pulled the chamber flag and hit the tube release and was quite surprised when it actually released a shell! Starters, my bad for not double checking the mag tube was empty. Any one had a shell not release from the tube? Any one try to color their follower or put one of the red low drag ones in?

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Edited December 14, 2014 by xtremekramer

[Neomet]

The serial number on the barrel is nice, but does not count for ATF. Those metal stamps work good? I was just going to engrave mine with a template.

I am pretty sure the ATF will not be pleased with an individual either stamping or engraving a new, even it is the same, SN on the receiver. I tried to find where this was discussed but no luck. Someone else can probably post a link.

[The Donald]

The serial number on the barrel is nice, but does not count for ATF. Those metal stamps work good? I was just going to engrave mine with a template.

I am pretty sure the ATF will not be pleased with an individual either stamping or engraving a new, even it is the same, SN on the receiver. I tried to find where this was discussed but no luck. Someone else can probably post a link.

I have heard if the serial number is 'moved' that it needs to be done by a class 07 manufacturers license. Not just at home or anyone else that does engraving.

[GSonnen]

Had a 2 gun match today (pistol/shotgun). The 1301 ran great. The last stage was a SG only stage. Ran through the stage and the SG locked open after my last shot. They said show clear. Rolled the gun over and put my chamber flag in. Put the SG away. Got home tonight and was cleaning everything up. Pulled the chamber flag and hit the tube release and was quite surprised when it actually released a shell! Starters, my bad for not double checking the mag tube was empty. Any one had a shell not release from the tube? Any one try to color their follower or put one of the red low drag ones in?

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I have the red low drag follower in mine specifically to avoid your situation.

I'd check your mag spring. Might be cut too short if your last shell is staying in the mag.

Edited December 14, 2014 by GSonnen

[Jadeslade]

The serial number on the barrel is nice, but does not count for ATF. Those metal stamps work good? I was just going to engrave mine with a template.

I am pretty sure the ATF will not be pleased with an individual either stamping or engraving a new, even it is the same, SN on the receiver. I tried to find where this was discussed but no luck. Someone else can probably post a link.

I have heard if the serial number is 'moved' that it needs to be done by a class 07 manufacturers license. Not just at home or anyone else that does engraving.

Who did you hear this from? What is your concern? No one is making the gun untraceable, which is the point of the serial number. Size and depth and plainly visible are all that is demanded by ATF,

[Neomet]

The serial number on the barrel is nice, but does not count for ATF. Those metal stamps work good? I was just going to engrave mine with a template.

I am pretty sure the ATF will not be pleased with an individual either stamping or engraving a new, even it is the same, SN on the receiver. I tried to find where this was discussed but no luck. Someone else can probably post a link.

I have heard if the serial number is 'moved' that it needs to be done by a class 07 manufacturers license. Not just at home or anyone else that does engraving.

Who did you hear this from? What is your concern? No one is making the gun untraceable, which is the point of the serial number. Size and depth and plainly visible are all that is demanded by ATF,

While that may be a very good and logical point we are dealing with ATF and state statutes who generally are unimpressed with arguments as to why their requirements don't make sense. Here for example is the language from AZ:

No person, other than a peace officer or a member of the military forces of the United States, shall knowingly possess a firearm on which the manufacturer’s serial number has been removed, altered or destroyed.

By moving a serial number you are first removing/destroying the original. That is a felony here. Doesn't matter that you put it somewhere else on the receiver. The act of grinding away the original is all that matters. I do think the comment that class 7 manufacturers are exempt from this is accurate but I can't find the citation.

[Jadeslade]

Logic has nothing to do with it. Your reading of the law is yours. So don't move your serial number if you don't want to.

[xtremekramer]

May have to pick up that red follower. My spring is at the recommended 12" past. Never did any cutting down after that. It's the first time it's happened. I will have to keep an eye on it.

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[sarpau]

Some dirt could have found its way into your mag tube and just happened to jam up that final shell/the follower.

Worked itself free on your way home and popped out when you cycled the action.

Unload and show clear, its good to make a habit of looking in chamber and mag tube.

Safety issue aside, that's an easy way of getting bumped into open for having too many rounds in the gun at the start signal or the next stage.

And a DQ at IPSC matches for coming to the line with ammo in the gun.

[Neomet]

I didn't, nor did I tell you not to. Grind and engrave to your heart's content. It is only an opinion, just like yours.

Edited to add one of the posts I was referring to in my original comment. Just one person's experience and this is from a couple years ago:

If you could previously move a serial number, you can no longer remove/alter the ORIGINAL serial number even if you re-engrave the serial number in another clearly visible area of the receiver prior to removal of the original serial number.

I specifically inquired to the ATF Technology Branch about this as well as just replacing a non-receiver part that contains the serial number (since it is not the receiver). The answer was 'no' from the Technology Branch - even if the serial number is on a part of the firearm that is not considered the receiver. The letter is very recent. But there are some caveats.

1. If the serial number is defaced by a criminal act, the owner can have a local ATF office issue a new serial number for the firearm and engrave it. (This is obviously assuming that you did not criminally do it yourself and were being prosecuted. Basically, this is when a recovered firearm can be identified through other means and restored to the owner but where the serial number has been obliterated and the original serial number cannot be determined by the owner or by trace.... which is highly unlikely.)
2. If the serial number is worn off via normal wear and tear or accidentally damaged, the owner can have the ATF office issue a new serial nubmer for a firearm and engrave it.

I suspect that there are other caveats or exceptions, but the letter did not indicate any. Per other's comments however, you may be able to request a specific exception by providing details OR you may be able to simply request a new serial number from your local ATF office.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Neomet

[converse320]

Had a 2 gun match today (pistol/shotgun). The 1301 ran great. The last stage was a SG only stage. Ran through the stage and the SG locked open after my last shot. They said show clear. Rolled the gun over and put my chamber flag in. Put the SG away. Got home tonight and was cleaning everything up. Pulled the chamber flag and hit the tube release and was quite surprised when it actually released a shell! Starters, my bad for not double checking the mag tube was empty. Any one had a shell not release from the tube? Any one try to color their follower or put one of the red low drag ones in?

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My only DQ was with my 1301 at unloading. I ran through all my normal drills at "If finished unload and show clear", was 100% sure the gun was empty, then at hammer down, BANG. I still can't explain it, but this is never going to happen to me again - I have fingers in every place that ammunition could lurk in that gun now before I'm happy it's empty.

[bluedevil008]

Had a 2 gun match today (pistol/shotgun). The 1301 ran great. The last stage was a SG only stage. Ran through the stage and the SG locked open after my last shot. They said show clear. Rolled the gun over and put my chamber flag in. Put the SG away. Got home tonight and was cleaning everything up. Pulled the chamber flag and hit the tube release and was quite surprised when it actually released a shell! Starters, my bad for not double checking the mag tube was empty. Any one had a shell not release from the tube? Any one try to color their follower or put one of the red low drag ones in?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My only DQ was with my 1301 at unloading. I ran through all my normal drills at "If finished unload and show clear", was 100% sure the gun was empty, then at hammer down, BANG. I still can't explain it, but this is never going to happen to me again - I have fingers in every place that ammunition could lurk in that gun now before I'm happy it's empty.

Why would you be doing Hammer down with a shotgun? I've never seen that at any type of match I've been to. Unload and show clear is followed by insertion of chamber flag and/or locking back of bolt.

[Jadeslade]

I didn't, nor did I tell you not to. Grind and engrave to your heart's content. It is only an opinion, just like yours.

Edited to add one of the posts I was referring to in my original comment. Just one person's experience and this is from a couple years ago:

If you could previously move a serial number, you can no longer remove/alter the ORIGINAL serial number even if you re-engrave the serial number in another clearly visible area of the receiver prior to removal of the original serial number.

I specifically inquired to the ATF Technology Branch about this as well as just replacing a non-receiver part that contains the serial number (since it is not the receiver). The answer was 'no' from the Technology Branch - even if the serial number is on a part of the firearm that is not considered the receiver. The letter is very recent. But there are some caveats.

1. If the serial number is defaced by a criminal act, the owner can have a local ATF office issue a new serial number for the firearm and engrave it. (This is obviously assuming that you did not criminally do it yourself and were being prosecuted. Basically, this is when a recovered firearm can be identified through other means and restored to the owner but where the serial number has been obliterated and the original serial number cannot be determined by the owner or by trace.... which is highly unlikely.)

2. If the serial number is worn off via normal wear and tear or accidentally damaged, the owner can have the ATF office issue a new serial nubmer for a firearm and engrave it.

I suspect that there are other caveats or exceptions, but the letter did not indicate any. Per other's comments however, you may be able to request a specific exception by providing details OR you may be able to simply request a new serial number from your local ATF office.

Use the Federal Register, not some hearsay from another gun forum. Bad science.

[Neomet]

So if it is bad science that my concerns are raised by an opinion/story from someone is it good science to have those concerns eliminated if I believe someone else (you)? Just kidding. Never heard of the Federal Register and when I looked though it now I can't find anything on point. Have you got a link or something to the right section? I'd love to drop the port lower on that side if I can.

[dogtired]

ATF Rul. 2013-3

ATF has received numerous inquiries from manufacturers and importers of firearms, and makers of NFA firearms (makers), asking if they can adopt the existing markings that were placed on a firearm by the original manufacturer. They ask specifically if they may use the existing serial number, caliber/gauge, and model already placed on a firearm instead of marking this information on the firearm when they further manufacture or import the firearm.

Some firearm manufacturers and importers acquire receivers and assemble them into completed firearms for the purpose of sale or distribution. Others, including makers, acquire complete firearms and further manufacture them (e.g., re-barreling or machining the frame or receiver to accept new parts). In either case, the firearm is already marked with a serial number, original manufacturer’s name, model (if designated), caliber or gauge (if known), and place of origin. Many manufacturers, importers, and makers assert that marking firearms with their own serial numbers, calibers/gauges, and models, in addition ATF Rul. 2013-3

ATF has received numerous inquiries from manufacturers and importers of firearms, and makers of NFA firearms (makers), asking if they can adopt the existing markings that were placed on a firearm by the original manufacturer. They ask specifically if they may use the existing serial number, caliber/gauge, and model already placed on a firearm instead of marking this information on the firearm when they further manufacture or import the firearm.

Some firearm manufacturers and importers acquire receivers and assemble them into completed firearms for the purpose of sale or distribution. Others, including makers, acquire complete firearms and further manufacture them (e.g., re-barreling or machining the frame or receiver to accept new parts). In either case, the firearm is already marked with a serial number, original manufacturer’s name, model (if designated), caliber or gauge (if known), and place of origin. Many manufacturers, importers, and makers assert that marking firearms with their own serial numbers, calibers/gauges, and models, in additionFurther, the serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and not duplicate any serial number placed by the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or maker on any other firearm. Under 18 U.S.C. 922(k) and 26 U.S.C. 5861(g), it is unlawful for any person to possess or receive any firearm which has had the serial number removed, obliterated, or altered.

[Jadeslade]

Dogtired. What is the point of your post?

[Jadeslade]

So if it is bad science that my concerns are raised by an opinion/story from someone is it good science to have those concerns eliminated if I believe someone else (you)? Just kidding. Never heard of the Federal Register and when I looked though it now I can't find anything on point. Have you got a link or something to the right section? I'd love to drop the port lower on that side if I can.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/the-federal-register/

If you are not sure how the Federal Register works (you said you never heard of it), may I suggest a course in Political Science at a local junior college? It is how government rulings (law) are updated by Federal agencies and in concert with the Congressional Record, provide the written record of current laws and updates.

I'd suggest a three day reading period, including all relevant context in the years of the major firearms laws, 1934, 1968, and 1986. Lexis/Nexis will help you in this. A certified librarian should be able to help you navigate. As will several pots of coffee and occasional nap.I would never take someone else's opinion as the word. Yes, it is bad science that "opinion/story" from "someone" raises your concerns. Implies you are not well versed in materia subjecta. The only person you can trust is yourself. I never suggested anything. I simply asked Dustbuster if those stamps worked good. You decided to weigh in. Have nice day.

[Neomet]

So if it is bad science that my concerns are raised by an opinion/story from someone is it good science to have those concerns eliminated if I believe someone else (you)? Just kidding. Never heard of the Federal Register and when I looked though it now I can't find anything on point. Have you got a link or something to the right section? I'd love to drop the port lower on that side if I can.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/the-federal-register/

If you are not sure how the Federal Register works (you said you never heard of it), may I suggest a course in Political Science at a local junior college? It is how government rulings (law) are updated by Federal agencies and in concert with the Congressional Record, provide the written record of current laws and updates.

I'd suggest a three day reading period, including all relevant context in the years of the major firearms laws, 1934, 1968, and 1986. Lexis/Nexis will help you in this. A certified librarian should be able to help you navigate. As will several pots of coffee and occasional nap.I would never take someone else's opinion as the word. Yes, it is bad science that "opinion/story" from "someone" raises your concerns. Implies you are not well versed in materia subjecta. The only person you can trust is yourself. I never suggested anything. I simply asked Dustbuster if those stamps worked good. You decided to weigh in. Have nice day.

I decided to toss something up that might have an impact that I had heard. Not weigh in as an expert nor to spend my time being insulted or be bored by someone pompous enough to need to use latin to say subject material. I'm done here.

Sorry mods. Nuthin' more coming from me.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Neomet

[usmc90]

I followed this thread to help and learn about this particular firearm. It has now turned into a large pissing match. Not good for us or the forum in general. As your mother's have said " if don't have something nice/positive to add , then dont"!!