Rick88 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Why is this not allowed is it really just to keep the 40 alive and the vendors happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I would think mainly because no one wants to shoot a 9 major without a comp and the what seems to me would be violent recoil impulse without a comp or popel holes would not lead to quick follow up shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Nine major would allow 22+ rounds in a magazine. Shooters would feel forced to sell their .40 gear and buy 9mm gear to be competitive because of the extra round--IMO. It would be an equipment race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 ASSuming all 8 shot arrays, I am thinking you're not going to get 24 total rounds of 9mm Major into a limited gun anyway with 140mm-ish mags. I am probably wrong though. You'll still be stuck doing a standing reload either right in the middle of the third array, or doing a moving reload between the 2nd and 3rd array, like what you were already doing with the .40 .... ASSuming 8 shot arrays. If the arrays are all kinds of variable, yeah then theoretically it gives you more options or more creativity in determing your shooting solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I have shot 9mm Major out of a regular Beretta. It shocked the heck out of my strong hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mda Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Because; someone could use any firearm chambered in 9 mm, not designed or built to withstand the high pressure associated with 9mm Major, and blow it up. Has nothing to do with mag capacity. MDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Why is this not allowed is it really just to keep the 40 alive and the vendors happy? Looks like it has been a couple of months since this came up. Nine pages of why 9 Major isn't going to happen in Limited: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52543entry604206 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Because; someone could use any firearm chambered in 9 mm, not designed or built to withstand the high pressure associated with 9mm Major, and blow it up. Has nothing to do with mag capacity. MDA You could do that in Open too....nothing saying someone couldn't try to shoot Open, 9 Major with their Astra, or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 23 are common for 140 length and 24 rounds are possible in 9mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 ASSuming all 8 shot arrays, I am thinking you're not going to get 24 total rounds of 9mm Major into a limited gun anyway with 140mm-ish mags. I am probably wrong though. You'll still be stuck doing a standing reload either right in the middle of the third array, or doing a moving reload between the 2nd and 3rd array, like what you were already doing with the .40 .... ASSuming 8 shot arrays. If the arrays are all kinds of variable, yeah then theoretically it gives you more options or more creativity in determing your shooting solution. I can get 24 rounds of 9mm into at least one of my Glock 140s. Shot the occasional 23-25 stage with it without needing a reload, before I had a G35..... 23 +1 is easily doable and reloadable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I get 24 rounds of 9mm in my old style SV mags without a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 23+1 or 24+1 is doable in a 140 with the right parts. I've shot some 9major rounds out of my 9mm Limited gun and it is not pleasant. The muzzle flip is not any worse than a 40 but the hit is very hard and uncomfortable. The extra 2-3 rounds are not worth the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Why is this not allowed is it really just to keep the 40 alive and the vendors happy? Yes basically and I think thats fine. In my opinion all the divisions below open are there to keep the gear race under control to a degree. If you want to buy new gear constantly go open. But if you want to keep the costs somewhat under control pick limited, limited 10, production, single stack, or revolver. Depending on your budget of course. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I'd much rather shoot soft shooting 180s all day that screaming 125s. This coming from a guy whose dad and Irv stone built an early 9mm gun that would push the pendulum into major. It had a 6" barrel, 20lb Wolf recoil springs, and ran Czech and izraeli sub gun ammo. I mean you can do it in theory I suppose, but un-ported I don't know. I think Pat is right. Plus, it's not that I don't like the open guys. They are a great bunch, but boy their cool looking guns are sure LOUD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I think people would start shooting 147 gr and heavier bullets if the .355 calibers were allowed to make major in limited. I vote to stay with 40 though, I have no desire to shoot it, load it, or buy new gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Probably harks back to the old days when .45 was major and 9mm was minor. People shooting .45 single stacks didn't want to give the high cap Browning Hi-Powers an unfair advantage with the additional mag capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Why is this not allowed is it really just to keep the 40 alive and the vendors happy? In a nutshell, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I don't think Vendor Happiness is the cause at all. A move to 9mm Major would make more sense for Vendor Happiness. They would have to build 100s of new guns for people to replace the current 40 Limited guns and could sell $$$ of "new" technologies to make 9mm Major more tame. I think USPSA has chosen not to allow 9mm Major to protect the membership from having to spend all that money to replace guns. Plus protect people from using 9mm Major ammo in guns that can not stand a steady diet of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 If we could make major with 9mm in limited then we all know that there are people out there that would go to all the local matches that don't chrono guns and claim major with normal factory ammo. In open most people are going to stay honost because they want the extra gas for the comp. Thats not to say people dont ever shoot .40 minor and claim major, but at least they have to put some effort into cheating and think it though. Another thing, not much off the shelf 9mm ammo that makes major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I don't think Vendor Happiness is the cause at all. A move to 9mm Major would make more sense for Vendor Happiness. They would have to build 100s of new guns for people to replace the current 40 Limited guns and could sell $$$ of "new" technologies to make 9mm Major more tame. I think USPSA has chosen not to allow 9mm Major to protect the membership from having to spend all that money to replace guns. Plus protect people from using 9mm Major ammo in guns that can not stand a steady diet of it. There's also prior institutional experience with these sorts of decisions..... The S&W guns chambered in .356TSW come to mind, as do (possibly) eight shot revolvers being briefly legal in Revolver division. In both cases USPSA apparently lost members, who were rightfully peeved when the guns they'd been told were legal at purchase, turned out later not to be so.... Equipment rule stability is a good thing -- especially if the alternative is to obsolete, or render illegal a bunch of guns..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Changing 9mm so you could make major at this point would be a much bigger deal then the attemped first shot trigger wieght rule for production and we all know how well that went over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) The wear and tear on guns would be cost prohibitive IMO, unless comps and ports were made limited legal, Oh yea that's open. I think the divisions are pretty good as is. Edited November 19, 2012 by buller01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 ASSuming all 8 shot arrays, I am thinking you're not going to get 24 total rounds of 9mm Major into a limited gun anyway with 140mm-ish mags. I am probably wrong though. You'll still be stuck doing a standing reload either right in the middle of the third array, or doing a moving reload between the 2nd and 3rd array, like what you were already doing with the .40 .... ASSuming 8 shot arrays. If the arrays are all kinds of variable, yeah then theoretically it gives you more options or more creativity in determing your shooting solution. Why does everyone assume 8 shot arrays? Often there are 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 shot arrays. occasionally there are 1 or 2 shot arrays. We also in this discussion have to consider L10. The other arguments regarding equipment obsolescence as well as the membership backlash are valid arguments against making this change. One place where we could go would be to allow .357Sig. it is easily major and it does not have a capacity issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walküre Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Because; someone could use any firearm chambered in 9 mm, not designed or built to withstand the high pressure associated with 9mm Major, and blow it up. Has nothing to do with mag capacity. MDA But allowing calibers smaller than .40 make major also allows things other than 9mm Major - things like .38 Super, which has multiple published loads stated to be within acceptable pressure limits that will make major. The biggest driving factor to retaining the .40 caliber requirement is probably indeed the equipment race angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 While I am against the 9 major for Limited, I did try to get it (and other similar rounds) accepted for L-10. Seemed like 10 round was 10 rounds. Unsuccessful due to the slippery slope arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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