DocMedic Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I seem to remember a year ago there was a conversation here in this forum that needing anything other then a 1-4x was exorbitant and futile, and the argument for this was you should be able to hit anything with a 1-4x faster due to the "Huge" FOV compared to a 6x power scope. Well fast forward a year later, who in the top of the sport other then Taran Butler (due to sponsorship) is still running 1-4x? Seems everyone is running a Swaro, and now that Bushnell release one that is affordable it seems the 1-4x are going to die off. What are peoples thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I guess my eyes suck enough that the extra 2 power really helps with the difficult shots. However, I believe the Swaro has been the top scope for several years now and finally there are some other great 1-6 options that are decently priced. I just picked up the Leupold Multi gun scope, can't wait for it to arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Rob Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Or you could zoom your 1-6x to just 4x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmanktm Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think the top shooters would still be the top shooters shooting 1-4s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 As CEO of the Southern Illinois Variable Scope Rescue, I have to say that we do our best to place those old neglected 1-4 power scopes with responsible new owners. If you have a 1-4 scope that you're no longer using, please contact us ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Yea I remember buying a Swaro 1-6 when they first came out and they were the only 1-6 at the time. People were saying you don't need the magnification and what not. Well now looks like I was right on this one. Having the option for more magnification is a good thing. You don't have to use 6x all the time but when its needed your glad you have it. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiligentPursuit Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think the top shooters would still be the top shooters shooting 1-4s. I suspect the top shooters would still be the top shooters even if running no magnification. I, on the other hand, need all the help I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I kinda figured that the 1-8x Leupold was gonna be the new thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think it has more to do with reticle design rather than magnification range. Personally, I'd rather use a 1-4x with a good reticle compared to a 1-6x with a crappy or useless one. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think it has more to do with reticle design rather than magnification range. Personally, I'd rather use a 1-4x with a good reticle compared to a 1-6x with a crappy or useless one. Erik I totally agree. However, if you can have a great reticle and 6x, why not? All within a reasonably priced package? I don't see the downside so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooting for M Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The never ending arms race can be heck on your pocket book! The guys that run the heck out of cobbled together (albeit reliable) whatever will almost always beat the pants off of guys with $4k guns with $2k scopes that don't practice. Can more magnification help, for long shots especially with less than satellar vision, most likely. Will a guy with a 1-4 that knows his equipment beat a guy with a better rifle and scope that doesn't know his equipment, yep. Better equipment can and usually does help to some extent, but ability is almost always the deciding factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaulter Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 My 1-4 works just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Exactly. I can put a 1-6, 1-8, or 1-10 on my rifle. Casanova will still show up and beat me with a 1x prismatic. If the question was... Does the Z6i obsolete 1-4x scopes? My answer is yes. I haven't seen any other 1-6x scope yet to make me drop my Meopta. The Swaro is the only one which gives you all of the benefits of a 6x without sacrificing something more important. I am also of the not so humble oppinion that the Z6i would sell well, even if it was called the Z4i. It's not just the 6x which sets the Swaro apart, it's the entire package. Best in class FOV, best in class eye box, best in class reticle, daylight bright dot, best in class glass, best in class 1x, efficient electronics, decent turrets, rugged yet light weight, oh.... and it also happens to be 6x. What's not to love!? If I had $2200 I'd already own one. I haven't seen any others with even close to this combination of features. All others compromise something important to gain something I don't need. It does offer up options though. If your eyes are bad and 4x just doesn't get it done (and 6x) does, then that particular feature becomes more important to you. Cool beans! Snatch one up. If you have a 308 and live in an area were you might, on occasion, stretch out to 800yds, then 6x is certainly beneficial. If you've got varmints and need to be able to take down predatory pests at 400+ yds, then 6x might be of greater value to you. The Bushnell is cool, but doesn't get it done for me. I'll wait and see what the new Vortex looks like, but I doubt I will bother to put one on my 223. Maybe my 308, but not my 223. No point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Way too much focus on gear and not enough on the stages and the shooting. If there's a target in a 3 gun match that you can't hit with a 1-4, then I'd suggest that's a target that shouldn't be in the match at all, otherwise those with irons would have no hope at all. I'm not opposed to evolution, but 500 yard shots are not "practical" with a carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I will say this about the Swaro Z6i glass. At 6x, the optical clarity was MUCH clearer than a Leupold Mk4 M/RT at 9x... Mick Exactly. I can put a 1-6, 1-8, or 1-10 on my rifle. Casanova will still show up and beat me with a 1x prismatic. If the question was... Does the Z6i obsolete 1-4x scopes? My answer is yes. I haven't seen any other 1-6x scope yet to make me drop my Meopta. The Swaro is the only one which gives you all of the benefits of a 6x without sacrificing something more important. I am also of the not so humble oppinion that the Z6i would sell well, even if it was called the Z4i. It's not just the 6x which sets the Swaro apart, it's the entire package. Best in class FOV, best in class eye box, best in class reticle, daylight bright dot, best in class glass, best in class 1x, efficient electronics, decent turrets, rugged yet light weight, oh.... and it also happens to be 6x. What's not to love!? If I had $2200 I'd already own one. I haven't seen any others with even close to this combination of features. All others compromise something important to gain something I don't need. It does offer up options though. If your eyes are bad and 4x just doesn't get it done (and 6x) does, then that particular feature becomes more important to you. Cool beans! Snatch one up. If you have a 308 and live in an area were you might, on occasion, stretch out to 800yds, then 6x is certainly beneficial. If you've got varmints and need to be able to take down predatory pests at 400+ yds, then 6x might be of greater value to you. The Bushnell is cool, but doesn't get it done for me. I'll wait and see what the new Vortex looks like, but I doubt I will bother to put one on my 223. Maybe my 308, but not my 223. No point. Edited July 12, 2012 by MickB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Does the Z6i obsolete 1-4x scopes? My answer is yes. ...SNIP... If I had $2200 I'd already own one... I've seen less circular logic in a bar, late at night when the bottles of hard stuff are empty. If the Z6i "obsoleted" the 1-4s, to which you say "yes", then you WOULD own one, money aside. Your next statement says you don't own one, which negates your first two statements. Argument DQ! I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that ALL of the 1-6+ scope sales combined don't come anywhere close to the sales of the Burris 1-4 MTAC alone. It is one thing to say the Z6i is the premier scope, but obsoleteing the "less premiers"...no way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 My points are that it "is" a circular arguement, that you can't disqualify all 1-4s based on the performance of a single 1-6 scope (which seems to be the theme) and that ultimately no amount of magnification will make you a better rifleman. Further, it's my feeling that what makes the Z6i great isn't the magnification level, but rather the other features combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I seem to remember a year ago there was a conversation here in this forum that needing anything other then a 1-4x was exorbitant and futile, and the argument for this was you should be able to hit anything with a 1-4x faster due to the "Huge" FOV compared to a 6x power scope. Well fast forward a year later, who in the top of the sport other then Taran Butler (due to sponsorship) is still running 1-4x? Seems everyone is running a Swaro, and now that Bushnell release one that is affordable it seems the 1-4x are going to die off. What are peoples thoughts on this? In the game of 3Gun, it is up to the MDs. If MDs stick to the Trapr philosophy (which I try to do) of 4MOA or better, then 6x is no big deal. If OTOH, MDs put 10" plates at 500 yards and beyond, then 6x is better. NECESSARY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think it has more to do with reticle design rather than magnification range. Personally, I'd rather use a 1-4x with a good reticle compared to a 1-6x with a crappy or useless one. Erik +1 And how clear it is , a good Glass is the key. ...I remember telling Trapr when I started out in 3gun that I just could not imagine making a precision shot with a 4 power scope. I have sure had my eyes open in the past few years to how we can hang on to an old way of thinking by using old standards as the rule. New Standards, new rules on glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I might get beat by someone younger, stronger or faster I might get beat by someone with more skill who got there though hard work and dedication to the sport. I might beat myself. But I haven't been bested by a scope nor any other piece of kit! Train well, shoot more and worry less about equipment and you'll find your way closer to the winners circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Train well, shoot more and worry less about equipment and you'll find your way closer to the winners circle. Bravo, Mr. Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I might get beat by someone younger, stronger or faster I might get beat by someone with more skill who got there though hard work and dedication to the sport. I might beat myself. But I haven't been bested by a scope nor any other piece of kit! Train well, shoot more and worry less about equipment and you'll find your way closer to the winners circle. Well said wise shooting sage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Ah, the'ol Indian vs the arrow... All things being equal, (and they seldom are) the better arrow wins. But I thought Docmedic was writing more in generalities. Not that no one would ever buy a 1x4 again, but that many were now preferring the 1x6, and he does seem to have a point. To that point, I thought he was writing of the change in perception, how a good scope with a little more magnification was beneficial. I must agree with him, if I am understanding him, but I find I am a dedicated scope lover anyway. Tar Edited July 12, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I think a 1-4 will die as hard as the 5" limited gun did in the shadow of the 6" fat free style gun. The 6" is better, ? how much better? I think it depends on how hard you play. I get some joy out of the few shots that the 6" works good on. I think a good 1-6 will be better, than the 1-4. Keep in mind that I don't have the new Razor 1-6 Yet. I am not unhappy with my 1-4 FFP using a good optic and seeing the hits early gives me joy in investment I put in to the game to play. I understand my self good enough to know the desire for the -New Razor 1-6- is mostly EGO driven. I have seen Egos bad twin Delusional and that not what drives me for better equipment. I want better equipment because it more fun to play with and I have been having more fun than ever before. Edited July 13, 2012 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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