PistolPete Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Well I've had nothing but trouble with my 650 for the past few months to the point I'm going to smash it to pieces. Before I moved to my new house I never had a problem with it. First the spring that holds the the case in the shellplate in station 2 popped out and I lost it. No big deal. Got a new one from Dillon. Well naturally I lost the 2nd one while trying to install it. In the process of finding it I found the old one but couldn't find the new one but the old one is a bit bent. I got it to fit in and maybe that is part of my problem. Then, on the downstroke on the machine it is sticking about 1/2 way in the pull. It is so tight that I have to slam it to get it to cycle. This has been happening for a while now. So, I took the machine apart today and cleaned it and oiled it etc. Problem is still there. Next, the primers are not cycling and are jamming up the machine. If that wasn't enough the first station isn't popping the primers completely out so that is also causing the machine to jam. I'm trying to think of the other problems I've had with it because it has been nothing but a problem. I've loaded about 20,000 rounds on this P.O.S. but now I can't really do anything with it. It took me 3 1/2 hours tonight to load 350 rounds. It usually takes about 1 hour to load 700-800 for me. What do you think I should do with this piece of crap? Should I send it back to Dillon and see if they can fix it or should I try fixing it myself? If I do the later where should I start? Please help me I'm getting desperate to the point I don't want to shoot anymore because I absolutely HATE reloading now. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Before I moved to my new house I never had a problem with it. Option # 1: Move back. Well I've had nothing but trouble with my 650.... Option # 2: Buy a 1050. Okay, so now that the silliness is over, let's try and offer some help. Problem # 1: First the spring that holds the the case in the shellplate in station 2 popped out and I lost it...I got it to fit in and maybe that is part of my problem. Had this happen too with the 650 (that I no longer have). Basically, the fix was to clean out everything with the primer system and put a new spring in. Make sure to, that you're not missing anything else in there. After that, just make sure it's all aligned and on the tabs and you should be good. Problem # 2: Then, on the downstroke on the machine it is sticking about 1/2 way in the pull. Not knowing this one too well, but a guess is that maybe your shellplate bolt is too tight. Too, the index slide cam (the plastic piece below the turret that rotates) might be sticking and/or getting out of alignment. Had this happen on an old one and a new cam fixed it (why make it out of plastic is my question). Oh, and make sure the screw on the main shaft that you tighten after adjusting the index tension of the shellplate is locked down. Problem # 3: Next, the primers are not cycling and are jamming up the machine. I've only had this happen for one of two reasons. First, is a primer that was attempted to be seated behind a still spent primed case. This will jack the new primer up and probably leave it in the primer disc. When it clicks over to the next primer (on the next piece of brass) the crappy primer remains and doesn't allow the disc to index. This happens too, with crushed primers when the case is in Station # 2 and out of alignment (how I discovered the spring problem). The other reason why this happened to me was that a primer in the primer sleeve got turned on its end and was not allowing primers to fall into the disc. Pain in the boootae! So, try emptying the primer magazine sleeze and loading only 100 primers (i.e. when it's less they tend to tumble...in theory). Too, to help diagnose this, load a couple of primers and just with your thumb, hit the silver tab that indexes the primer disc. Do this 8-9 times until primers are falling into the live primer catch tray. Problem # 4: If that wasn't enough the first station isn't popping the primers completely out so that is also causing the machine to jam. This one is easy. The spent primer's anvil is getting caught on the punch. So, when the turret goes down, it's sudo-reseating the primer. The fix for this was on the boards last week and it's to just sharpen the primer punch in your resizing die. What do you think I should do with this piece of crap? Should I send it back to Dillon and see if they can fix it or should I try fixing it myself? If I do the later where should I start? Now. All things considered you probably can do this yourself. However, as it's pretty painless and swift I'd just send it back to the guys at Dillon and it WILL come back working. Shipping ain't that expensive compared to pitching onto the freeway. Of course I'll give $250 for it now. Hope that helps. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Jamming halfway down could also be gremlins in the priming system. Carefully note _where_ it jams and what's supposed to be happening then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 when I had the "jamming" when halfway down it turned out a primer that had stuck in the priming plate was "dragging" not letting it all turn smootly. Take the priming system apart and look for a stuck primer in the plate or somewhere around it that would make it drag. If all else fails get on the Phone and call Dillon, if you and them can't fix it over the phone then maybe you can talk them into fixing it for you. GOOD LUCK SAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Pete: DANGER! DANGER! DANGER! Then, on the downstroke on the machine it is sticking about 1/2 way in the pull. It is so tight that I have to slam it to get it to cycle. You are a candidate for a blown primer. DON'T EVER SLAM THE HANDLE ON THE DOWNSTROKE OF A 650. KAAAAABOOOOOM OK, sounds like the problem is in the priming system and/or the station 2 tensioner: First the spring that holds the the case in the shellplate in station 2 popped out and I lost it. No big deal. Got a new one from Dillon. Well naturally I lost the 2nd one while trying to install it. In the process of finding it I found the old one but couldn't find the new one but the old one is a bit bent. I got it to fit in and maybe that is part of my problem. But first, just make sure, take the primer system off and all the cases out and see if the press cycles smoothly. If so, keep working this way, if not, write back (or call Dillon). Adjust the tensioner so that it just puts a little pressure on a case that is completely seated into the shell plate. If this is loose, the primer pocket in the case may not line up with the new primer and puch. Slamming this will create fireworks. Too tight and the case will tilt and not want to go into the powder/expander die correctly. There is a small screw hidden deep in the body of the primer plate cover that adjusts this tension. Put the primer system back on. With out primers - put a few cases in and see if they will cycle smoothly. If not, check and see that the primer plate is indexing fully (the hole lines up with the anvil). If the plate doesn't index enough the anvil will hit the plate. Both are very hard so the press jams. If the primer plate doesn't index correctly then either the plastic cam or the index arm are FUBAR. Probably, the index arm is bent. You can bend it back if you're handy (I've done it a few times) or get a new one. My guess is that: 1) A case got out of alignment because there was a problem with the tensioner spring. 2) By forcing the press you probably bent the primer plate index arm 3) The primer plate will not likely index correctly now - leading to more jams. How do I know about this - been there, done that. I try to fix things like this myself because I don't want to pay shipping and wait. Get one of hte spare parts kits that Dillon offers, and you wil be able to swap things out to troubleshoot. Write back and let us know. AND DON'T SLAM THE PRESS!!! It will either kaboom or bend something (or both). BTW: $275 and I'll pay the shipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 You should call Dillion I quarntee they will help you out of your problems- Ive had a 650 for many many years and dillion has taken care of the few!! problems Ive had. Jim Anglin Sailors Custom Pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Pete, Buy some ammo, shoot this weekend, and send out your machine on Monday. If you can identify any parts you need, pack up the wife and come shoot Bass River with us (call it a vacation on the Cape). I have a bunch of spare parts and your welcome to them. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsonm1 Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 (edited) Here's something else to look for (I don't think it has been mentioned)... I had the exact same problem. It was the primer assembly. I used a little too much arm to cycle the ram with a primer flipped in the little disc that picks up and feed the primers. The channel in the aluminum block was scratched by the forcing of the arm to feed the primer. After a few cycles, I noticed I was getting more flipped primers and the press would stop halfway through the down stoke which is when the primer disc is supposed to turn. I called Dillon and asked if I should replace the primer assembly or return it. They said use a polishing wheel on the channel in the primer feed and make it as smooth as possible. Worked 100%! I haven't had a flipped primer or cycle stoppage in over a year! Hope this helps. Marv Edited July 30, 2004 by parsonm1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Watch the primer cam on the upper right side of the frame as you pull the handle down. If the downward movement of the handle stops when the primer index arm starts to contact the primer cam, then I suggest you remove the shellplate, then the primer system. Sounds like that's where the problem resides. If you can't find it, PLEASE call Dillon when you can be in front of the machine. If you determine that you need some parts, we are happy to send them to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 I'll offer $275.00 and a case of beer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 I'll throw in a case of PBR. Take that Ron! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 $375 and I'll throw in some grip tape to cover that grip job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 it helps to partially disassemble the machine and observe what makes it *jam* or *stick* during a stroke. The 650 is already a complex machine, and if you have trouble keeping it running you *surely* don't want to go to a 1050 (for which a mechanical engineering degree, while not required, is helpful)... get on the phone with the Dillon people, and have them gently walk you through. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 I sold my 650 and bought the 550 and have never looked back. Both the 650 and 550 are fine machines, but the 550 is far less complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Purchased my 650 second hand, took it apart, cleaned it, ADJUSTED everything in every stage I thought that had to be adjusted, observed every movement of the Blue-one carefully. Until today, 100K+ on Super, .40 and .30M1 flawless, SUPER 650! It works well for me: 800 rnds/h Henny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 GTO, the only thing worse than Pete wrestling with his reloader would be Pete wrestling with the traffic to get on the Cape to go shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Ken, I know. I think Pete's itching to get to a match though, so I wouldn't count it out. I actually see guys from his area make the trip to the Cape to shoot quite regularly. The guys at Bass River are really great and the match is worth the traffic. BTW, I just called Dillon for a sideways primer problem I was having and after about 30 seconds on the phone the problem that's been bugging me for a month was fixed. Thanks Ted (or was it Tim?) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveHarris Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 One of the problems with a bind when lowering the shell plate assy. is the powder die. I had to take my 40 powder die and clean the brass off with the steel brush wheel on my bench grinder. I then treated it with Moly-Fusion (www.moylfusion.com ). So far there hasn't been any new build up... we'll see after a few thousdand loads. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattjoe Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 traffic getting onto the cape on a sunday morning is no problem.... it's the getting off the cape if we aren't out by 1 I'll up the bidding to 350 and a bottle of Captain Morgan. That way I can have the entire Dillon line on my reloading bench. Maybe i should paint my bench blue. Nah, i'd have to clean it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 Well thanks for all the help. I'm going to take it apart again on Monday to see what is going on. All the help is great and now I'm pretty confidient I can get this thing up and running. If I sell it for $350 then I'll have to still come up with a few hundred bucks to buy a new one. Just cause the press is being stubborn doesn't mean I want to stop reloading. Up till recently the press was error free for prob. 30000 rounds. It is prob. my fault for not doing something I should have. I'll get this thing up and running correctly if it kills me... Pete Oh by the way I won't be going to the cape this weekend. But I will be at Harvard next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 Just cause the press is being stubborn doesn't mean I want to stop reloading. Up till recently the press was error free for prob. 30000 rounds. It is prob. my fault for not doing something I should have. I'll get this thing up and running correctly if it kills me... Pete Pete, You are in command, not the Blue-one! Only one can live... and it's not the Press... it's a machine... Henny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 UPDATE: Well tonight I loaded some ammo for a match tomorrow. Thanks to everyones help I was able to get it mostly running. I have Dillon sending some parts to me but haven't receive them yet so I had to improvise. I lowered the position of the primer cam and cleaned the whole primer assembly and now that part of the press is working 100%. Now, I'm having other problems. The cases are not dropping into the shellplate at the first station. I need to help the case along a bit which slows me down tremendously. I'm sure I just need to adjust the plastic spacer or something. Then the primers are still not popping out on the first station. As mentioned in a previous post it may be that the spent primer is sticking to the shaft and reinserting itself. I'm not really sure though. So I'm about 85% up and running which is a lot better than 40%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I would strongly suggest that you read this web link thoroughly. You will want to pay special attention to the section on setting up your press. The answer to your station one problem is in there. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 UPDATE:Now, I'm having other problems. The cases are not dropping into the shellplate at the first station. I need to help the case along a bit which slows me down tremendously. I'm sure I just need to adjust the plastic spacer or something. Then the primers are still not popping out on the first station. As mentioned in a previous post it may be that the spent primer is sticking to the shaft and reinserting itself. I'm not really sure though. Hi Pete, had this problem too. Adjustment is made with the indexer block no. 18, lefthandside lower part of the machine. Shellplate and new case should be lined up. Case comes finally into shellplate when I seat the primer on st.2 (adjust this with camming pin no.9) Keep the ejection hole for spent primers clear (don't oil it) I have my decapping pin (on stage 1) sticking out the die for a least 0.4" Hope these solutions work for you as well, good luck, safe reloading Henny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Also check that your case-insert-slide-cam (the black pyramid) isn't cracked. Remove it and see. Clean the reloading media gunk out while you're in there. Decapper-pulling-the-primer-back-in is discussed elsewhere-- polish and shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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