Anyone ever truly build a .45 open?

[Travis224]

I really like shooting 45acp and don't see many builds on them. Any reason? If i had to guess the purpose IF i did it would be for steel challenge/bowling pin match at my local club. As far as that goes, they have 2 categories...double stack, and single stack.

Second question- anyone ever compd a 45? (Thinking a m&p 45)

[Noximus03]

1- Cost....40 is somewhat cheaper, 9mm major definitely is.

2- Recoil management. .45 is a big dawg round with big dawg pop, i dont care how light you load it.

3- Cost....wait....I said that already, I think.....

I'm sure that theres a bread basket full of other reasons, which I'm sure that more of our board brethren will be posting here very shortly....

[latech15]

That used to be THE open gun.

Then along came the caspian hi capacity frames, then paras, then STI and the rest is history.

It could certainly be done. The right powder and bullet would make it somewhat doable, the reduced capacity mags would kelp you out of the most desirable category, but it would kick all kinds of ass for bowling pins.

[Travis224]

Thanks for the responses! All reasons put that into perspective, yea, as far as bowling pin match, if i ever had enough money to build one and play, i will have to look very hard. But dont end this thread, am still wanting feed back!

[mike3232]

I really like shooting 45acp and don't see many builds on them. Any reason? If i had to guess the purpose IF i did it would be for steel challenge/bowling pin match at my local club. As far as that goes, they have 2 categories...double stack, and single stack.

Second question- anyone ever compd a 45? (Thinking a m&p 45)

I have 2. Both are single stacks. My dad have them to me. One is a Colt Gold Cup with a two port comp, the other is a Clark Pin Gun. Both shoot somewhat soft, but nowhere near my 38 super. They would be a great bowling pin gun. That's what my dad used them for.

Edited May 24, 2012 by mike3232

[feederic]

My dad has a comp'd .45 1911 from the early 90s. That used to be the ticket! The compensator works well, but is nothing compared to 9/38 setups right now.

[Guest]

Yep, along they way I did a couple two or three but they are all the equivalent of buggy whips now.

Just like today people were always searching and developing loads and comps that balanced accuracy, with speed. Of course the power aspect was never a problem with a .45. I had the clark pin gun style ramped comp, a single hole-er, and this plenum chamber radius ramp comp gun (a.k.a. horseshoe comp). The best load I found was Rick McDowells's Competition Specialties 180gr lead SWC with Winchester WW452AA (WST's grand pappy, I believe). It was accurate and soft shooting and it worked the comp really well.

I recall the progression of frames as being Single stackers > Para > CZ clones > Caspian > STI. I knew folks running the hi-cap Para in .45 but it just wasn't enough to outweigh the competitive advantages of a .38 super or 9x21 cartridge in USPSA shooting.

Attached are some pics of one I kept because it shot so well, and I made A class in open with it.

Doing a retro build would be cool. If you do it, you gotta show the pics!

[mildot1]

I am curious as to what you define as "I see lots of forty's built" as open division guns? I would be hard pressed to believe that they would make up 5% of the pistols built in the last ten years. I don't know shiat about bowling pin matches but I can see NO advbantage for USPSA or steel challenge. Your mag capacity is WAY DOWN and the reloading cost is WAY UP.

Good Luck in whatever you decide

[Rick88]

I remember 45 open guns well, that was when shooting skills were the main factor in this sport now days not so much...

[iShootguns]

My buddy's open gun from the mid 80s. Welded on comp, SS .45ACP. The slide racker is a fairly recent addition I believe, but the rest is all old school. That gun was state of the art back in the day!

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Those old single stack open pistols are just great looking Another thing to consider is that if you are using heavy jacketed bullets the pistol also gets more twist on your wrist than the smaller bullets. Try some factory police loads in 45acp about 100 rounds and my wrist starts hurting. I may be more sensitive to this than some others but it still is a concern. Talk to some old shooters and ask them how things changed when they went to 38 super open pistols. Maybe I should say a shooter that have been shooting a long time Thanks, Eric

[TwoShot]

I shot a PARA .45 open gun for several years. Why, because it was all I had. It had a Clark 2 port comp and I shot 178 grain semi-wadcutters. In the late 80's I had a singlestack .45 comp gun, 200 grain H&G 68's. Made A class and shot it in the 1990 Nationals. I hate to sound hokey but life was simpler then.

[mpolans]

Sure...20+ years ago. The hot ticket were 152gr LSWC (Vic? CP Elite? I can't remember). Then for bowling pin matches, we'd swap springs and and use 230gr or 255gr.

[shootin-blanks]

I've got an old school .45 open gun, Para frame, Caspian slide, Nowlin barrel and comp, Weigand two sided mount, Tasco PDP-4 red dot. welded mag well, front strap checkered. Built by Wayne Bergquist of Glades Gunworks. It would make someone a nice bowling pin gun..

http://www.snoyes.net/pics/Para/IMAG0664.jpg

http://www.snoyes.net/pics/Para/IMAG0665.jpg

[malagamarksman]

I used to shoot a single stack compensated Auto Ordnance .45 with a Tasco PDP3 in the U.K before 1997. That was before Tony .B. Liar took them away from us. I bought the barrel in Florida. It would shoot into one ragged hole off the range bag at 25 yards.

I moved to Spain 4 years ago. So just for a bit of fun this year I built a "RETRO" open .45. A Norinco NP44 which is a Para P14 copy, Para mags and after market Para parts all fit.

IGB Austria compensated barrel, Dawson Precision Mag well and Dawson extended baseplates on the standard mags. I can squeeze 18 in one of the mags. Jack Weigand double sided mount and and just bolted a Truglo 40mm red dot on it.

It shoots just like I remember they did. This one is just as accurate. 4 grains of Vectan BA10 with a 200 LRN hardcast bullet recoil is perfectly manageable. Thats a target load that factors at 167. Economical to load too unlike 9mm major and 38 super.

Factory ammunition is OUTRAGEOUSLY priced here 30 EURO for 50 .45acp !!

When it comes to guns, accessories and ammunition you guys in U.S have no idea how lucky you are !

Edited May 28, 2012 by malagamarksman

[carlosa]

I really like shooting 45acp and don't see many builds on them. Any reason? If i had to guess the purpose IF i did it would be for steel challenge/bowling pin match at my local club. As far as that goes, they have 2 categories...double stack, and single stack.

Second question- anyone ever compd a 45? (Thinking a m&p 45)

My understanding is that comps don't do much to 45 due to the cartridge lower pressures..

Just not enough gas to get the comps going..

Maybe it's bs but that what's been told to me

[gunguru]

I ear that too. The 45 was a big, slow and relatively low pressure/gaz volume round, the compensator prefer high pressure and gaz volume to work well. And a smaller barrel help concentrate the gaz pressure, but a big barrel (like a 45) will dissipate much of his pressure in the barrel itself. It's why we see so much 38 super and now 9mm major, high speed and high pressure, small bullet. And the capacity is a big point too, especially with a limited lenght magazine, a smaller round means more round.

It's what I remember from my gunsmith school.

[Glockman1000]

My first open gun was a Para gunsmith kit. Springfield Armory slide, Weigand tube scope mount with an Aimpoint. Wilson Combat cone compensator. My load was 155 LSWC with 7.5grns of WW231 back in the early 90's.

[superdude]

My understanding is that comps don't do much to 45 due to the cartridge lower pressures..

Just not enough gas to get the comps going..

Maybe it's bs but that what's been told to me

I ear that too. The 45 was a big, slow and relatively low pressure/gaz volume round, the compensator prefer high pressure and gaz volume to work well. And a smaller barrel help concentrate the gaz pressure, but a big barrel (like a 45) will dissipate much of his pressure in the barrel itself. It's why we see so much 38 super and now 9mm major, high speed and high pressure, small bullet. And the capacity is a big point too, especially with a limited lenght magazine, a smaller round means more round.

It's what I remember from my gunsmith school.

Compensators work fine with the 45 ACP. Pressure is not the issue. gas volume runs compensator function. see the link below.

http://38super.net/Pages/Compensator%20Function.html

Edited May 28, 2012 by superdude

[carlosa]

Well there you go

[Travis224]

Wow, great read..gonna need to decide if i truly have a need for a 45 pin gun..

[malagamarksman]

Compensators DO work with .45acp but not as good as .38 super and 9mm major.

For a direct comparison you only have to fire the gun with the comp barrel and then replace it with the standard barrel and shoot it again with the same ammo. BIG difference.

Vectan have published some new loads with SP2 and a 200gr FMJ. ELEVEN grains of powder gives 1100fps. Should be plenty of gas there for the comp ?

I'm gonna give it a whirl.

[superdude]

Compensators DO work with .45acp but not as good as .38 super and 9mm major.

For a direct comparison you only have to fire the gun with the comp barrel and then replace it with the standard barrel and shoot it again with the same ammo. BIG difference.

Vectan have published some new loads with SP2 and a 200gr FMJ. ELEVEN grains of powder gives 1100fps. Should be plenty of gas there for the comp ?

I'm gonna give it a whirl.

i certainly agree with that. the 45 ACP has much more recoil in general than the medium bores, probably simply because of that 230 grain slug. and if you compare the numbers at that link between the 38 Super (which was not loaded to Major, by they way) and the 45 ACP, the compensated 45 still had waaaaay more recoil than the compensated 38 Super. again, i think that 230 grain bullet makes a big difference. so, while a compensator works like a compensator even on the 45, it does not tame it to the recoil levels you get with the compensated smaller bore calibers.

[BSeevers]

Sure...20+ years ago. The hot ticket were 152gr LSWC (Vic? CP Elite? I can't remember). Then for bowling pin matches, we'd swap springs and and use 230gr or 255gr.

I think the Penn Bullets were the best. Hard Shiny Linotype with red lube

My first Open gun was a "trick" Wilson SS with a single port comp. I got a good deal since Robbie won that year with a dual port so the last owner sold it fast.

[ZoomZoom]

My first 'real' race gun was a Colt Series 80 .45 stainless, single port comp. None of them fancy optic sights either just good old Bomars. Sorry, no pics though. That was the lats 80's.