Backup Gun

[38superman]

I did a few searches and couldn't find much on this so I will ask the question.

If your favorite blaster has a major malfunction, do you just reach in the range bag and get your backup, or reach for the spare parts kit?

As we all know, its a substantial cost and effort to travel to major match.

I wouldn't care to get 3 stages into the nationals then have to go home because my gun crapped out.

Raceguns aren't cheap and it seems rather extravagent to keep two 2011's in my bag.

A good variety of spare parts should keep you out of trouble, but some things that break don't lend themselves to getting fixed at the safe area.

I don't remember the exact wording but the rules do allow for a change of gun if it is of the same general type and caliber, and changing doesn't create a competitive advantage.

I just wonder how many of us show up with a gun collection in the range bag.

Tls

[EkuJustice]

I don't keep an exact copy but something that could be used if needed. For limited with the 2011, I kept my old glock 24 in the bag with ammo for it. For open which i shoot a 2011, I think the backup will be either my sti limited gun or an open glock that I got the parts for cheap. I doubt a match director would have a problem with that switch.

[yoshidaex]

I've got an exact copy of my primary as a backup.

It runs the same ammo and mags. A bunch of spare parts are on hand too.

[Inkman]

I bring a extra gun for every match. Big or small. Shooting SS kinda affords that.

Actually lend out my seconday 1911 to others at matches more than i've had to use it as a backup gun for myself.

Al

[Nik Habicht]

For Nationals I used to bring two identical 34s, and a Glock 19, along with a spare parts kit.....

I never had to switch guns, or repair a blaster during the match -- probably because the gun figured there was no point in breaking....

[scott e]

I have a back up for both my limited and open pistols. Last year at nationals I had to use parts from both my limited pistols to get one that would run. Both minor problems. I will not shoot a major match without a backup.

[Skydiver]

I don't remember the exact wording but the rules do allow for a change of gun if it is of the same general type and caliber, and changing doesn't create a competitive advantage.

It doesn't have to be the same general type and caliber. It just has to satisfy the requirements for the same division. You can even have a different caliber, but that would mean packing double the ammo.

To answer your question about packing a spare gun, I turn to my spare parts kit for local matches. For a major match, I'll keep a spare gun in the car. The spare is primarily there as another source of parts to cannibalize if the part isn't in my spare parts kit and it's a simple fix. If it's a difficult fix, it'll be time for me to contact the RM and arrange for a gun swap.

It was funny that last week for a weekly match, I had gut feeling to put another gun in my range bag. As I fired the last few shots of stage 3, this happened:

I just took the top end off my other gun and slipped it on the current frame to shoot the last stage.

[Carmoney]

If you can't afford two fully functional guns, you can't afford to shoot that division! Even when your primary gun has proven itself to be extremely reliable, crazy stuff happens.

One year at the Single Stack Classic, my front sight blade broke off (leaving the base in the dovetail) with 4 or 5 stages to go. This was not something that could have been easily resolved with a parts kit. Having an extra gun along, I was able to finish the match with a virtually identical gun that had a front sight!

Another time, my revolver started suddenly skipping chambers at an area match. This is a well-known problem that can usually be resolved by changing out the cylinder stop and spring, and/or dressing the lead-in ramps on the cylinder with a round stone. But it's still not something I would want to have to mess with at the safe area, y'know? Having another identical 625 in the bag took care of the issue.

[gunguru]

My main gun is a Shadow, but I bring my Witness too, as they use the same mags it should be usefull.

[pjb45]

It is kind of hard to to have two Infinity guns as back ups, with upwards of $3800 per gun and 12 month build times, I can't afford that kind of investment in Limited and Open guns.

[JakeMartens]

Two 2011's for limited, 2 1911's for single stack

And if I plan on shooting another division it will be 2 production guns.

[JThompson]

When I used to shoot. I always brought two to a major and didn't worry about L1 as if something happened I was happy to just grab a timer and shoot the shit with the guys.

JT

[BillD]

Two 2011's for limited, 2 1911's for single stack

And if I plan on shooting another division it will be 2 production guns.

I'm going with Jake so if my gun craps out, I'll borrow one of his.

[Thomas H]

I don't keep an exact copy but something that could be used if needed. For limited with the 2011, I kept my old glock 24 in the bag with ammo for it. For open which i shoot a 2011, I think the backup will be either my sti limited gun or an open glock that I got the parts for cheap. I doubt a match director would have a problem with that switch.

Actually, you might have a problem with going from Open to your STI Limited gun.

5.1.7: Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all courses of fire in a match.

As such, switching from a dot to iron sights may not be allowed. While the later parts (5.1.7.1 through 5.1.7.4) that talk about what is acceptable for a substitute firearm don't explicitly talk about any limitations on sights, 5.1.7 is pretty clear, and an RM might not allow you to switch guns if the sight types don't match.

[kevin c]

In Limited I used to bring a backup to any match I had to drive more than a couple of hours to get to (I am fortunate to be within 20 minutes drive of my home range and its two monthly USPSA matches). The backup was the same model Para as the primary, but was modified stock, not custom like the main. I never needed it; minor repairs to the main gun were all I ever had to do.

In Production, I shoot Glocks. Like Nik, I have two identically set up G34's or minor loaded G35's that get brought to the big matches, plus a spare parts kit containing everything except the slide, barrel and frame. Again like Nik, I've had occasion to repair the main, but haven't needed to go to the backup so far.

The two tricked up G34's/35's and the spare parts kit (which can be used for either model) together cost less than the Limited backup I had.

[Corey]

For limited I only have the one right now, but I've been looking for a good deal on a comparable backup gun in case something terrible happens. Just havent found it at the right price. I had 2 guns with me at the SS Nationals, however. IN short, yes, its a good idea to do so. If not, at least have extra parts on hand in case something goofy happens. That reminds me, I need to buy more parts...

[Nik Habicht]

I don't keep an exact copy but something that could be used if needed. For limited with the 2011, I kept my old glock 24 in the bag with ammo for it. For open which i shoot a 2011, I think the backup will be either my sti limited gun or an open glock that I got the parts for cheap. I doubt a match director would have a problem with that switch.

Actually, you might have a problem with going from Open to your STI Limited gun.

5.1.7: Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all courses of fire in a match.

As such, switching from a dot to iron sights may not be allowed. While the later parts (5.1.7.1 through 5.1.7.4) that talk about what is acceptable for a substitute firearm don't explicitly talk about any limitations on sights, 5.1.7 is pretty clear, and an RM might not allow you to switch guns if the sight types don't match.

That shouldn't be a problem if the gun breaks.....

5.1.7 was designed so that you can't shoot the 50 yard standards with a very heavy gun with a dot, only to then transition to a much lighter gun (or irons) on a shorter distance stage with wide transitions....

The way that NROI teaches the material is pretty much along the lines of: "If a competitor's gun breaks, and he asks to use a replacement, as long as the replacement gun is legal for the division, the RM should probably approve the switch."

[bbbean]

I have nearly a nearly identical backup in Single Stack and a very similar backup in Limited. I like the idea of a painless gun swap in case of malfunction instead of an emergency repair on a rickety safe area table that may or may not work out as planned. I prefer to do my repairs at home and test them on my own range.

[Thomas H]

I don't keep an exact copy but something that could be used if needed. For limited with the 2011, I kept my old glock 24 in the bag with ammo for it. For open which i shoot a 2011, I think the backup will be either my sti limited gun or an open glock that I got the parts for cheap. I doubt a match director would have a problem with that switch.

Actually, you might have a problem with going from Open to your STI Limited gun.

5.1.7: Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all courses of fire in a match.

As such, switching from a dot to iron sights may not be allowed. While the later parts (5.1.7.1 through 5.1.7.4) that talk about what is acceptable for a substitute firearm don't explicitly talk about any limitations on sights, 5.1.7 is pretty clear, and an RM might not allow you to switch guns if the sight types don't match.

That shouldn't be a problem if the gun breaks.....

5.1.7 was designed so that you can't shoot the 50 yard standards with a very heavy gun with a dot, only to then transition to a much lighter gun (or irons) on a shorter distance stage with wide transitions....

The way that NROI teaches the material is pretty much along the lines of: "If a competitor's gun breaks, and he asks to use a replacement, as long as the replacement gun is legal for the division, the RM should probably approve the switch."

Agreed---it shouldn't be a problem. And mostly, I doubt it will. That being said, it isn't an absolute that it will be approved, so it is something to think about. As you said, there are situations in which (even if the gun broke, and it is a legitimate situation for switching) that it might be an issue.

[Nik Habicht]

I don't keep an exact copy but something that could be used if needed. For limited with the 2011, I kept my old glock 24 in the bag with ammo for it. For open which i shoot a 2011, I think the backup will be either my sti limited gun or an open glock that I got the parts for cheap. I doubt a match director would have a problem with that switch.

Actually, you might have a problem with going from Open to your STI Limited gun.

5.1.7: Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all courses of fire in a match.

As such, switching from a dot to iron sights may not be allowed. While the later parts (5.1.7.1 through 5.1.7.4) that talk about what is acceptable for a substitute firearm don't explicitly talk about any limitations on sights, 5.1.7 is pretty clear, and an RM might not allow you to switch guns if the sight types don't match.

That shouldn't be a problem if the gun breaks.....

5.1.7 was designed so that you can't shoot the 50 yard standards with a very heavy gun with a dot, only to then transition to a much lighter gun (or irons) on a shorter distance stage with wide transitions....

The way that NROI teaches the material is pretty much along the lines of: "If a competitor's gun breaks, and he asks to use a replacement, as long as the replacement gun is legal for the division, the RM should probably approve the switch."

Agreed---it shouldn't be a problem. And mostly, I doubt it will. That being said, it isn't an absolute that it will be approved, so it is something to think about. As you said, there are situations in which (even if the gun broke, and it is a legitimate situation for switching) that it might be an issue.

There can always be a problem with anything -- but that one's not likely......

If an RM were to refuse substitution of another firearm that's legal for the division, I think I'd drop a note to NROI......

[EkuJustice]

I'll take that chance. When the glock is finished(got a kit super cheap) thats coming as the backup. I really don't see a match director having a problem with the switch as long as you stay switched. Like the example above, shoot the heavy gun for the distance and oh no it breaks right before the hosing stage and you swap it out for a light gun then fix the original gun before the next long stage. Buying an exact copy of the gun for a backup just isnt a possibality right now.

When we shot skeet in HS/College we had a backup K32 receiver that we kept in a case and took it to the matches. We had all 4 K-80s(mine, dad and 2 brothers) fit where they were totally interchangeable. Any barrel, would fit and work on any receiver including the spare. If something happened, it was a swap of the stock and barrels on the extra receiver and keep going. The difference there was in USPSA, im not gonna win the match so if I end up having a problem and shooting with a less competative gun etc Im fine with it and cant justify the extra money on a hobby. When I shot skeet, I was a very competative AAA shooter and went there expecting a gun champ and If I started having problems, I was swapping receivers which I never needed to do.

[38superman]

The only time I ever faced this situation was at the '06 Michigan Targeting Education match.

(It was a 700 mile trip to get there).

I was shooting Limited 10 with a double stack 45.

The gun stopped running and I was forced to drag out my Limited gun.

Both were legal for L10 but the idea that I would be able to switch was not a given.

The concern was that the lighter gun and lesser caliber might constitute a competitive advantage.

The RM decided that major was major and if my ammo chrono 'd ok, he would allow it.

As an example, If you needed to switch from a 2011 to a polymer gun, I don't think its really a sure thing.

I would really like to have another limited gun similar to my SVI but with a $4,000 + price tag, I guess I'll just have to take my chances, ....... for now.

Tls

Edited May 8, 2012 by 38superman

[motosapiens]

I hope this is more of a problem for shooters that are seriously contesting for division wins. I often bring a backup gun (a far inferior one in most cases) just because if something wacked happens, I want to still have fun shooting, and not just quit and go home. It kinda burns me up that one particular shooting sport requires the backup gun to be the same 'type, action and caliber' (meaning technically if I had a failure on my tuned gamer race cz, I couldn't switch to my pedestrian stock carry M&P compact), but I doubt that would be an issue in a local match.

I suppose if I ever get good enough that anyone actually cares what I'm shooting, I'll have a backup gun that more closely mimics my main competition shooter.

[AirBorne]

My back up is an M&P .40, it shoots the same ammo as my main weapon. I do have to carry an extra holster and mags and pouches, but after my main weapon broke at Texas Limited last year I learned my lesson. Once I added up the cost of time off work, gas, match fees and hotel room, ect it just made sense to have a back up. If it weren't for the kindness of a fellow shooter I'd have had to go home with 4 stages left. (Thanks again Pat H.)

[Carmoney]

Like the example above, shoot the heavy gun for the distance and oh no it breaks right before the hosing stage and you swap it out for a light gun then fix the original gun before the next long stage.

You can't go back to the original gun, even if you fix it. Once you switch guns (with Range Master approval), you're not allowed to switch back again. I could look up the rule and cite it here, but I'm too tired after shooting my Tuesday night USPSA local match!