barrysuperhawk Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Just a quick question to get some opinions: I am planning on Running the EEM1A this year in Heavy Metal, but so far the only really reliable mags I have come up with have been Checkmate 25 rounders. All of the 20's I have bought do wierd things like popping the last round out loose, not seating right, or not staying seated, etc. Even the 2 Factory Springfield mags aren't 100% so far. The problem, obviously is that the rule for HM is 20 rounds. Now, it shouldn't be any real issue to download to 20, heck, just put one box of 20 per mag and I'm golden, right? The problem is that I have been told that 10 round mags downloaded to 8 are not kosher for Heavy Metal that specifies 8 round mags, because they stick out further and could be considered an advantage for manipulation. Granted other matches allow 10 rounders, or even non singlestacks, in HM but that's not the point. If I choose my gear to comply with the most restrictive set of rules, then when I go somewhere that is more lenient, it's a bonus Now, I don't need to debate the accuracy or intent of that statement here, the RO said it, I switched to natural 8 rounders, no harm, no foul. What I am concerned with is having the same type of rulesmanship applied to my rifle mags. Unfortunately, I have already spent way more cash on this little project than I intended, so just buying a dozen checkmate 20 rounders probably isn't going to be in the cards, and that assumes the Checkmate 20's are as reliable as I have verified the 25's are. So, I have a quandry. Do I try to come up with some manner of "verification" for roundcount [think FAL style witness holes] or some method of "blocking" the mag to 20 rounds [and take a chance on compromising otherwise reliable mags] or something else? I suspect I am overthinking this, but then Open class isn't very forgiving of HM equipment if a RO or MD disagrees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Are your 20 round mags Checkmates as well? (the ones that you are not happy with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The answer is in the wording of the rules. Blue Ridge rules state "no magazine shall be loaded w/ more than 20 rounds at any time." Ozark states "no magazine shall exceed a 20 round capacity." These are just the two I checked. Looks like you'll need to fit an internal block to your 25 round mags or figure out why your rifle doesn't like the 20s. I've always had great luck w/ the CMI 20 round mags, but I'm also still using a half dozen of 40 year old USGI surplus mags. M1As usually aren't picky about mags, which makes me think it may be your rifle. When an empty mag is locked into the rifle with the bolt forward, is there any movement to the mag? Also, what stock are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Haven't had a problem using 10 round mags when specified 8 rounds MAX... and never seen a rule lately that specified 8 round MAGS. Shouldnt matter. We let ya use 15 round mags, downloaded to 10. Just dont load over 10, (or 20 rifle rounds). Kinda like the rule 8+1 to start in the shotgun...mag can hold more, just cant start with more. Now get signed up for the HeMan National 3 Gun! JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Personally I'd just try to find a good stock of surplus military magazines. I'm not familiar enough with Checkmate to yay or nay them, but if your limited to 20rd magazines and you get 25 rounders your going to be at the mercy of the RO your shooting under. I had a springfield loaded M1A, and seemed like the only magazines that I found that were actually worth while were military surplus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Are your 20 round mags Checkmates as well? (the ones that you are not happy with) Nope, I suspect they are Chicom, but only a couple have any markings at all. It doesen't matter, because they are all wonky in my gun...least the 20's I have. The answer is in the wording of the rules. Blue Ridge rules state "no magazine shall be loaded w/ more than 20 rounds at any time." Ozark states "no magazine shall exceed a 20 round capacity." These are just the two I checked. Looks like you'll need to fit an internal block to your 25 round mags or figure out why your rifle doesn't like the 20s. I've always had great luck w/ the CMI 20 round mags, but I'm also still using a half dozen of 40 year old USGI surplus mags. M1As usually aren't picky about mags, which makes me think it may be your rifle. When an empty mag is locked into the rifle with the bolt forward, is there any movement to the mag? Also, what stock are you using? I have 2 SA and 6 or 7 "other" mags. The SA mags have a much larger locking plate, and are noticibly harder to seat, but are tighter. The chicoms [or whatever they are seat much easier but do move a bit and have noticibly weaker springs. I suppose I could have looked up the rules myself... I wonder if I could talk Kirk into changing the wording of the rules...LOL I bet it would be cheaper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistlepig Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Personally I'd just try to find a good stock of surplus military magazines. I'm not familiar enough with Checkmate to yay or nay them, but if your limited to 20rd magazines and you get 25 rounders your going to be at the mercy of the RO your shooting under. I had a springfield loaded M1A, and seemed like the only magazines that I found that were actually worth while were military surplus. I'm with Lee on this. American surplus mags have always run in my M1A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) I'm not aware of any source of "cheap" M1A mags that are good. But, I've never needed more than 3 mags on any stage I've ever shot. You can get CMI 20s for under $30/each, so for less than $100 you should be ready to shoot. Barry, if you want to try before you buy, PM me your address and I can send you a couple of my CMI 20s to try. I have not had to "tune" or modify them in any way to run in my Springfield or Norinco M1A. Regarding capacity issues in He Man, I think Benning was the only match I've shot that specified a max capacity of 8 rounds in the pistol. Edited March 27, 2012 by Bryan 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I hit a local gun show and many dealers had military surplus M1A mags. Mags were in great condition (some, like new). One dealer took the time to explain how to look for the mfg's. tiny stamping on the back spine of the mag. Bought (5) and averaged about $30/mag. They have all been great in my S/A M1A standard. Another option for you. Good luck, Nick- P.S. Tbis is my first M1A and OMG is it a blast to shoot. I'm bummed I never tried one before. I ran some Hornady TAP 168gr. AMAX though it to check accuracy and wow, I'm impressed. Always been a tac-optics guy and I was amazed what I could do with this rifle and how much fun it was to shoot. My son, an open shooter, was home from college and wanted to try the M1A. You should have seen the smile on his face as he was slamming steel. He kept saying, wow, these iron sights are geat...lol. I wish there was more heavy-metal matches close to me. Sorry for the thread drft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I use 20rd CMI mags in my M1A without problems, I have also cut holes in the side of a couple of them and used them in my AR10, before I got some GenII mags (just won't lock it open on last shot). I have a couple of 25rd mags for my AR10 that I will plug (made some blocks that fit in the bottom of the mag) for matches that say mag capacity can't be more than 20rds. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I hit a local gun show and many dealers had military surplus M1A mags. Mags were in great condition (some, like new). One dealer took the time to explain how to look for the mfg's. tiny stamping on the back spine of the mag. Bought (5) and averaged about $30/mag. They have all been great in my S/A M1A standard. Another option for you. Good luck, Nick- P.S. Tbis is my first M1A and OMG is it a blast to shoot. I'm bummed I never tried one before. I ran some Hornady TAP 168gr. AMAX though it to check accuracy and wow, I'm impressed. Always been a tac-optics guy and I was amazed what I could do with this rifle and how much fun it was to shoot. My son, an open shooter, was home from college and wanted to try the M1A. You should have seen the smile on his face as he was slamming steel. He kept saying, wow, these iron sights are geat...lol. I wish there was more heavy-metal matches close to me. Sorry for the thread drft. The "local dealers" with the "GOOD GI Surplus" mags are what got me into this, apparently I SUCK at discerning GI from Chicom, even after having read the M14forum.com magazine reference... I'll probably just break down and buy or trade for some CMI 20's. Damn this is getting to be an expensive experement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I am using CMI mags only on recommendation of gun shop. No problems so far but I only have about 700 rds thru the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 To address your original question, it depends on the match. As mentioned earlier, some matches specify rounds in mag, others specify mag capacity. You can makes blocks for the mags that work, and you will find that most matches are getting a bit more lenient and allowing 10 rds in the pistol mags and 20 in the rifle mags at the start. To be safe, you will need to check the wording of the HM rules at the matches you intend to shoot. 25's make for much easier topping off to start 20 + 1 at the beginning of stages where you need them all, and I think that the slightly longer 25 rd mags are a little easier to seat, maybe due to a little extra leverage. Also, should you happen to get bumped for ammo not making PF, you can then load up your 25 rd mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Check CDNN they had a supply of US made surplus M1A mags. That is all I have for my SA M1A no modification and they all run great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Player Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I prefer the length of 25 Rd mags for monopoding. Looks lok I am gonna find/make some sort of mag block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Sorry to necro-post on this topic but didn't want to start another topic on the same subject. What about Pro-Mag M1A 20 rounders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rq375 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Sorry to necro-post on this topic but didn't want to start another topic on the same subject. What about Pro-Mag M1A 20 rounders? when you figure the time and ammo spent to try and make them work, and sending some back, as well as the cost of springs and possibly followers for the ones you do keep, the Checkmates come out quite a bit cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Checkmate still the mag to get for a Springfield M1A (Scout)? Thanks, wg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Checkmate makes the new M-14 magazines for the military. For old G.I. look for W or BRW marked mags. These were hardened and heat treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I've had great luck w/ the new CMI mags and the old BRW mags. I found about 10 rusted BRW mags at an auction a few years ago, bought them cheap, soaked them in mineral spirits for a few days, hit them w steel wool and they're as good as new- just a little ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Be careful of some of the W marked mags, as they are not USGI, but repros that don't work very well. Stick with CMI or deal with known good vendors of USGI m14 mags.... Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 For my part, I ended up buying a dozen of the Stainless Checkmate magazines and have been super happy with them. I was not concerned with the fact that they are shiney because this is a competition gun, but they have the added bonus of being super slick. I have not had a magazine related malfunction since I got these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Good info on the W marked mags.I never knew there was a repro with that marking. Does the W look the same? All mine are from 1974-1977.... or at least when I got them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Good info on the W marked mags.I never knew there was a repro with that marking. Does the W look the same? All mine are from 1974-1977.... or at least when I got them I don't know if the W looks the same, but they don't look funky. I bought some of these a few years ago that were supposed to be USGI, they wouldn't work in my rifle or a friends rifle. The company that sold them to us gave us a refund. I have one Taiwanese mag that works and the rest are all CMIs, and they work. CMIs are a deal, considering what real M14 mags sold for during the ban. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC702 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) I have no problems with any of my dozens of CMI or older USGI 20-round magazines. EVERY one of the Korean KCI magazines that I have tested have ejected the ultimate loaded round out of the rifle along with the penultimate fired case. So if you aren't using CMI or USGI 20-round magazines, get them and your problem is probably solved. That said, Springfield Armory Inc factory magazines are made by CMI, so they should be just as good. I recently started doing Multigun, and am shooting in the Heavy Metal Limited with the same M1A that I shoot in other military rifle competitions and the occasional High-Power match. USPSA rules that the sidearms for this can be Limited-10 configuration, as long as they are at least a .44, so 10-rounders in your 1911 would be fine for that. While I don't think there is a huge advantage (there may be some) to a longer magazine body on the rifle, like there clearly is when using a 10-round 1911 mag when 8-rounders are the limit, I, too, would not want to push that rule, especially considering that a quality 20-round magazine is ubiquitous. I may have to pick up a couple of the slick stainless ones and give them a try. Edited September 24, 2014 by MAC702 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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