So,why are all the limited guns I see .40's?

[Lou D]

Just curious..I see everybody building their Limites guns in .40..Why not 10mm? The .40 case length isn't really meant to run on the 1911 platform,the 10mm is,and the 10 seems to me to be more versatile if you want to use the gun for purposes other than competition,and,to me,just a more desirable cartridge,especially for a high dollar gun like a 2011..Is it a case of the old Howie Mandel line:"that's whatcha do.."?[Just a bone headed inquiry from an old fart who despises.40's,LOL!!]

[hankfan79]

Ever tried pricing 10mm brass by the thousand? Ouch!

[al503]

Availability of cheaper brass and loaded ammunition is the biggest reason I can think of.

Also, many of us load our .40's long. Although all my .40's run factory length just fine, I load them up to 1.245" depending on powder/bullet combo. In regards to versatility, I'm not too certain I would be comfortable having a ~2 lb trigger on a weapon used for anything but play. You could change/tweak the trigger group but that would probably be more hassle than its worth. JMO, of course.

[Maksim]

no reason other than novelty to go 10mm for USPSA, especially since most commercial 40 S&W ammo makes major quite easily.

[warpspeed]

I'd say it is entirely driven by the price of brass.

Same capacity. Both make major pf with a variety of powder & bullet combinations.

Both meet the .40 min dia for USPSA major pf.

And also for factory loaded ammo, 40 S&W is much cheaper and more available.

[Lou D]

Ever tried pricing 10mm brass by the thousand? Ouch!

Yeah,that makes sense..I didn't really care too much about the brass cost,I shoot what I shoot,and I have a bucket full of tens,LOL!!

What's the power factor # for USPSA major? Me,if I wanted capacity and power,I'd be building a 9X23..I'm asking because even though at the moment I have nowhere to shoot,I may start buying parts to build a gun.I could easily go .40,I have a pile of brass I got from a local PD,but I just HATE the cartridge,I swore I'd never own a gun in .40.I do,however,also have a corresponding pile of .357 SIG I'd like to shoot in something besides my Glock..

[The Antichrome]

Ever tried pricing 10mm brass by the thousand? Ouch!

Yeah,that makes sense..I didn't really care too much about the brass cost,I shoot what I shoot,and I have a bucket full of tens,LOL!!

What's the power factor # for USPSA major? Me,if I wanted capacity and power,I'd be building a 9X23..I'm asking because even though at the moment I have nowhere to shoot,I may start buying parts to build a gun.I could easily go .40,I have a pile of brass I got from a local PD,but I just HATE the cartridge,I swore I'd never own a gun in .40.I do,however,also have a corresponding pile of .357 SIG I'd like to shoot in something besides my Glock..

PF for Major is 165 with a minimum bullet diameter of .40"/10mm.

[Lou D]

Ever tried pricing 10mm brass by the thousand? Ouch!

Yeah,that makes sense..I didn't really care too much about the brass cost,I shoot what I shoot,and I have a bucket full of tens,LOL!!

What's the power factor # for USPSA major? Me,if I wanted capacity and power,I'd be building a 9X23..I'm asking because even though at the moment I have nowhere to shoot,I may start buying parts to build a gun.I could easily go .40,I have a pile of brass I got from a local PD,but I just HATE the cartridge,I swore I'd never own a gun in .40.I do,however,also have a corresponding pile of .357 SIG I'd like to shoot in something besides my Glock..

PF for Major is 165 with a minimum bullet diameter of .40"/10mm.

I didn't know there was a minimum bullet diameter.Is bullet diameter the same for minor? What is Minor? 125?

[Lou D]

Availability of cheaper brass and loaded ammunition is the biggest reason I can think of.

Also, many of us load our .40's long. Although all my .40's run factory length just fine, I load them up to 1.245" depending on powder/bullet combo. In regards to versatility, I'm not too certain I would be comfortable having a ~2 lb trigger on a weapon used for anything but play. You could change/tweak the trigger group but that would probably be more hassle than its worth. JMO, of course.

I've been shooting 3.5 pound triggers for 35 years,I have really strong hands from building custom motorcycle frames & engines since I was a kid,I'd get AD's with anything lighter,LOL!!

[The Antichrome]

Ever tried pricing 10mm brass by the thousand? Ouch!

Yeah,that makes sense..I didn't really care too much about the brass cost,I shoot what I shoot,and I have a bucket full of tens,LOL!!

What's the power factor # for USPSA major? Me,if I wanted capacity and power,I'd be building a 9X23..I'm asking because even though at the moment I have nowhere to shoot,I may start buying parts to build a gun.I could easily go .40,I have a pile of brass I got from a local PD,but I just HATE the cartridge,I swore I'd never own a gun in .40.I do,however,also have a corresponding pile of .357 SIG I'd like to shoot in something besides my Glock..

PF for Major is 165 with a minimum bullet diameter of .40"/10mm.

I didn't know there was a minimum bullet diameter.Is bullet diameter the same for minor? What is Minor? 125?

PF for Minor is 125 with a min. bullet diameter of .355"/9mm

[ParaGunner]

And why exactly don't you like 40s&w?

[OperationHitFactor]

You can't exactly say there is no reason for 10mm. There are a few people who use 10mm loading 200 grain bullets with N310. I guess their theory is that it helps eliminate muzzle rise without running into pressure issues with 40. Personally, I think it is just a waste of money and doubt that there is little to any improvement. In addition, I saw one of these guys get a cracked slide. Maybe from the beating the gun was taking or maybe from bad machine work. Branching out from the group is silly, if you don't have a personal gunsmith, extreme wealth, or a big sponsor.

40 works for our game just fine and isn't too bad on the pocket book. Gear junkies and pro shooters have tried just about every set up possible. In the end, it's still widebody 5 inch 40's that rule the roost.

[hax]

With the advances of gunsmithing now 40 caliber 1911/2011's function fine.

I was right there with you thinking that I would never get a slow and weak but it seems to be the bullet of limited. But I would never use a 40 as a carry

[blaster113]

for our game the .40 does everything we need it to do for Limited. plus you can download the .40 to make a nice Production load.

[wmspdi]

You may have a bucket full of 10mm brass now, but if you shoot Limited you may not have it for long. Many matches are "Lost Brass" meaning when the brass hits the ground it belongs to the range (no recovery). It's when you have to pay to replace that lost 10mm brass you'll find out why most of us shoot 40s.

Edited February 28, 2012 by wmspdi

[Shadyscott999]

for our game the .40 does everything we need it to do for Limited. plus you can download the .40 to make a nice Production load.

And exceptionally soft Steel Challenge loads.

[old506]

Just trim all of your 10mm cases a bit and you will never know the differance!

[38superman]

C'mon Lou,

Twice you mentioned that you really don't like the .40

I have to ask,...... why?

The .40 S&W has a lot going for it.

What is it that bothers you about it?

[jar]

C'mon Lou,

Twice you mentioned that you really don't like the .40

I have to ask,...... why?

The .40 S&W has a lot going for it.

What is it that bothers you about it?

Here's a post on the matter from a friend from a local forum: http://vintagepistols.com/40isbad.html

[Lou D]

So,here comes the can of worms..Why don't I like the .40?..For starters,refer to my original post,and concentrate on the "old fart" description..

I'm a 56 year old guy,been shooting competition since the early 80's,always shot .45's and .38 Supers,because that's all there was.I chuckled when the .40 first came out,so did all my older or as old buddies..I waited for years to get a 10mm,didn't want a Bren,had to have a Delta.Bought one,loved it,traded it in on a beautiful polished blue Weigand Delta in 2001,still my favorite non race gun.Now,out comes this "shortened" 10mm designed by the FBI,a special cartridge for people who couldn't handle a 10,and couldn't shoot well enough to get the job done with a 9mm..Great,a bigger,more powerful,easier to shoot cartridge that predominantly ended up in the hands of people who,for the most part,couldn't shoot to begin with,and figured a poor shot with a bigger gun would compensate for not being a great shot.

That said though,yeah,I can see that the .40 probably is the right cartridge for a Limited gun,better capacity than a .45,makes power factor easily,fits the 40 or larger rule for major,and cheaper to shoot than a 10mm,.38 Super or a 9X23.I thought the factor for major would be high like IPSC,I wondered if you guys were really pushing the .40 like IPSC guys did to the Super before the 9X23 and 10mm came out.

I don't have a problem with it as a true competition cartridge that fits the rules perfectly,and I probably will go with a 40 if I build a gun,but it'll be a COLD day before you see old Lou shooting a .40 in IDPA or carrying one,LOL!!

[Lou D]

C'mon Lou,

Twice you mentioned that you really don't like the .40

I have to ask,...... why?

The .40 S&W has a lot going for it.

What is it that bothers you about it?

Here's a post on the matter from a friend from a local forum: http://vintagepistols.com/40isbad.html

Thanks JAR!!!

All you guys,read that link,add "and the .45 GAP" to the headline,and sign my name to the bottom!!!...LOU

[Lou D]

By the way,did I mention that,except for my WWII military stuff I don't want to ruin,all my 9mm's are punched out to 9X21,LOL!!!

[Norther]

Well, that link is interesting, but I think you're looking at it wrong. The way I see it, the .40 is a way to get more power out of a smaller (9mm) action. I'd rather have a .40 for a carry gun than a 9X21. You should be comparing it to other cartridges of the same length, not with ones that won't work in the chosen action. Think of it like .308 Win vs .30-06; both good rounds but they each work a little better in certain situations.

Edited to add: I agree, though, that if your carry gun is big enough to handle the 10mm round, forget the Short & Wimpy. And the 10 too, for that matter. Go .45. If the ACP isn't enough, go Super. But this is a competition forum, and we're getting off-topic.

If I'm not mistaken, that was the intent of the GAP as well, but I admit to a tremendous bias against that useless round Although, it might be interesting in a moonclipped revolver, as the shorter brass should be a bit faster to eject and reload for competition. If I find enough range brass, maybe I'll try that sometime. Then again, maybe not.

The economic advantages of .40 really do make it the best round for Limited class. Even in the local matches, you'd lose too much 10mm brass to be sustainable. One of the ranges we shoot on is the local police range; I always leave there with LOTS more brass than I came with. I've never bought any .40 brass.

Edited February 29, 2012 by six-gun shooter

[Lou D]

Well, that link is interesting, but I think you're looking at it wrong. The way I see it, the .40 is a way to get more power out of a smaller (9mm) action. I'd rather have a .40 for a carry gun than a 9X21. You should be comparing it to other cartridges of the same length, not with ones that won't work in the chosen action. Think of it like .308 Win vs .30-06; both good rounds but they each work a little better in certain situations.

Edited to add: I agree, though, that if your carry gun is big enough to handle the 10mm round, forget the Short & Wimpy. And the 10 too, for that matter. Go .45. If the ACP isn't enough, go Super. But this is a competition forum, and we're getting off-topic.

If I'm not mistaken, that was the intent of the GAP as well, but I admit to a tremendous bias against that useless round Although, it might be interesting in a moonclipped revolver, as the shorter brass should be a bit faster to eject and reload for competition. If I find enough range brass, maybe I'll try that sometime. Then again, maybe not.

The economic advantages of .40 really do make it the best round for Limited class. Even in the local matches, you'd lose too much 10mm brass to be sustainable. One of the ranges we shoot on is the local police range; I always leave there with LOTS more brass than I came with. I've never bought any .40 brass.

Actually,I don't carry a 9X21,I just think the 9 is such a pipsqueak,I bought a reamer.Didn't hurt that my buddy,[a famous builder] had 4000 rounds of 9X21 brass,half were loaded with jacketed bullets,and a Bar-sto 9X21 barrel,bought the lot for 75 bucks,LOL!

I carry either a custom Star .380 I built,11 rounds in it,or a micro .45 I also built.The Star is a really cool little gun,only an inch or so wide,but a 4" barrel,nearly full size 1911 type grip,with an extra mag in a knife pouch on my belt,got 21 rounds on tap.The .45 is only 28 ounces empty,steel frame,holds 7,and I carry an extra full size mag with that..[because they don't make a .46..At least I haven't yet,LOL!!] I'll post pics of them..

[Steve RA]

Biggest problem I see with a .40 S&W is the number of Glocks with stock barrels shooting it.

The brass (pick up) needs more work than any other caliber.