wmspdi

You may have a bucket full of 10mm brass now, but if you shoot Limited you may not have it for long. Many matches are "Lost Brass" meaning when the brass hits the ground it belongs to the range (no recovery). It's when you have to pay to replace that lost 10mm brass you'll find out why most of us shoot 40s.

I have 5 P16-40 magazines with Dawson extensions and they all use the Dawson springs. http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=3640000-1100274077 I get 20+1 rounds of 40 S&W in my Canadian made Para OEM blued tubes and followers. No problems. You might be able to shoehorn an extra round in with a different follower, or buy cutting the magazine spring a little (at the risk of FTF on the last round). I am happy with twenty reliable rounds so I never tried it. YMMV.

Like this? http://www.lonewolfdist.com/ItemMedia/10000/10000_39736.jpg

I have the same gun (Candian made without the PX) plus a Dawson Magwell and five mags with Dawson extentions. I bought my P16-40 used and had to chase down a few issues that I thought were magazine induced, but turned out to by caused by the slide stop and magazine release button. You can read all about it at http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=298470&highlight=Gotchas and find my solutions to the problems. Tight slide to frame fit is overated in a combat style gun as it increases the chances of a malfunction. However I does come into play with a frame mounted optic (Open gun). Since the sights on a Limited gun are mounted on the slide the most important thing as a good barrel to slide fit. Also Run-n-Gun isn't bullseye and the demands for accuracy are different. The larger grip size is directly related to the number of rounds it holds. As far as I am concerned it could be the size of a 2x4 if it held 30 rounds in a 140mm long magazine, but I have big hands. If the gun runs fine I don't see a need to spend a lot of money for an STI, unless you are looking for STI "bragging rights". STIs are a little lighter than the Para all stainless steel frame guns (sometimes weight is your friend without a compensator) and they do have their own set of "issues" (mag tuning amoung them). Remember the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you DON'T know.

I have a TRP AK that I picked up used (like new, no rail, low round count and at a great price). I changed out the full legth guide rod in favor of a GI style plug and spring guide. I also changed to a slightly more aggressive version of Larry Davidsons grips (Thanks Larry). I have 5 Wilson 8 round, and 5 McCormick 10 round, plus the 2 factory magazines (used for Barney bullets). The TRP eats just about any load I feed it. It's a keeper and will be passed down to my son someday.

I have 5 Dawson pads on my Canadian made Para mags and each one loads 20 rounds of 40 S&W. Make sure you get the extra power springs when you get the pads. The factory springs may work, for a while, but I found they will give you problems down the road. I don't try to fit 21 in to the first mag, I just use a "Barney" instead. BTW- I've heard the older (blued) Canadian Para mags are smoother (inside the magazine tubes) than the nickle magazines. You may have to buff the interior surface a little to get the springs to run nice and smooth.

WMSPDI: are you going to/did you lower your ejection port yourself? No real need to as long as the gun runs fine with your load and without the optic (that can't always be said for the Gen 4 G17s). With a slide mounted optic there is nothing hanging over the ejection port, or even near the ejection port, for the brass to hit.

BTW- I should have noticed this earlier. Unless I am missing something... I believe the RTS is only available in a picatinny mount. http://cmore.com/rts.html Your only mounting options for the RTS would be a frame mount on a picatinny rail, or having a picatinny rail and cross slot milled into the rear of your Glock slide (Lone Wolf offers this style cut on their own slides, but not on Glock OEM slides). http://www.lonewolfdist.com/ItemMedia/10000/10000_39736.jpg To mount the optic in the dovetail on the slide you would have to use a C-More STS with a Glock narrow mounting plate. Sorry I didn't catch this earlier.

There is no doubt that the early slide mounted dot optics were not built to the standards of the new units. The manufactures learned what to redesign through field trials conducted by their "paid beta testers" (those paid beta testers would be all of the shooters who bought those early designs and thus paid for the privaledge to test them). To break one of the newer slide mounted optics (C-More STS, JPoint, Fastfire III...) rated at 1,000Gs of shock you would have to be running an extremely light recoil spring (to get very fast slide cycling). The mass of the slide would be slamming hard against the frame at the rear of travel. I would be more concerned about slide/barrel/frame battering with that much recoil energy, than I would be concerned about breaking the optic. The newer optics (like the JPoint) have the electronics sealed in a block of resin. Switches have been redesigned or eliminated. Optic designs (like cell phones and computers) change every 12 to 18 months. The Fastfire II is not that old, yet the Fastfire III ships out this month. The dot on your gun today will soon be obsolete and you will be looking for the next to piece of new technology to replace it. I consider red dots like the Fastfire II ($200) JPoint (at $250) or STS ($300) to be expendable. They are priced to be upgraded, or replaced when worn, like magazines or compensators. Run it till it breaks, then just replace it (hey, it may still be under warrenty anyway). If it still works when you upgrade to a new optic save the old one as an emergency replacement. If they use the same mounting plate all the better. As far as which style mount you like better... it's no different than black post vs fiber optic vs big dot front iron sights. Everyone's taste is different.

BTW- I missed the question about fitting gunsmith barrels. I haven't tried that with a Glock aftermarket barrel. I find the drop-in Glock aftermarket threaded barrels to be good enough for my needs. I am more concerned about chamber support running 9mm Major at +P+ pressures. I feel a tiny bit of play in the lockup isn't a bad thing as metal does expand (and possibly binds) when it gets hot. 1911 .45 shooters learned that lesson the hard way some years ago. Their hot expanding barrels seized up in their tightly fitted barrel bushings midway through a long string of fire. With a barrel block locking system (like the Glock) if it's tight, and not right, you risk peening the barrel or slide (like in the early run of the Kahr PM9s). Glocks were designed to be combat weapons so I figure if Glock doesn't hand fit their barrels to the slides why should I. If I am shooting an 8 MOA dot on a Glock I am not going to notice a 1 to 4 MOA difference between a drop-in or fitted barrel anyway. With that said... If I were charging big bucks to build race guns for sale (like SJC or Carver) that might be another story. YMMV.

The optic only weighs .9 to 1.7 oz depending on make, model and mount. Going from a plastic Glock rear sight to a steel adjustable iron sight (say a Millet sight) would be about the same change in mass. If you sense a slight change in slide velocity you can either adjust the slide spring weight (down a pound), have the sight "melted into the slide (the steel removed should equal the weight of the optic), or mill out a little steel (coffin cut) from the top of the slide. The coffin cuts behind the front sight on the G34/G17L/G24/G35 slides are there to lighten the longer slide's mass to be close to that of the G17/G22. That is how all 6 guns can use the 17 lb factory Gen 3 spring. Since the optic is directly over the CG (your hand) the balance should not be effected.

I am using a Jager comp, KKM barrel and a Jager UL striker, recoil rod and flat spring. I haven't decided on the dot for sure. I am leaning toward the C-More STS, but I want to see the new Burris Fastfire III before I decide. I will mount the dot on the slide for a while then maybe have it melted in once I am sure. For the lower a Decal Grip, JP Enterprises aluminum magwell and a Vanick Triger kit.

I had been watching the classifieds for a few months prior to starting my Glock G17 STS build last week. I didn't see one 2011 S_I race gun below $2200.00, and most for sale in the classifieds were closer to the $2,500 range. With new STI guns approaching $4K (with magazines) driving the price of used guns skyward, I would say the short answer to finding a $1500 Trubor or GM would be... NO! IMHO start off with the Glock, PRACTICE finding and controlling the dot and just get in the game. Don't listen to the shootors who say "you must have a XXX gun to be competative", or worry about impressing the other shooters with your high priced 2011 hardware. When YOU can shoot better than the Glock, and the Glock is the only thing holding you back, it is time look at the STI or maybe a custom gun built the way you want.

Agreed plus... Here is something else to think about. Having watched slow motion video of comps at work I noticed that even the best have some small amount of muzzle rise, followed by a small amount of muzzle dip when the slide closes. The center of the guns rotation (CG) during recoil is directly above your hand. Just like a teeter-totter the farther down the arm you extend beyond the pivot point (say a frame mounted optic on the other side of the ejection port) the greater the up-down motion will be. In theory, with a slide mounted red dot directly over your hand and slightly forward of the center of rotation, the dot's up-down movement would be less. Same degrees of rotation, but a shorter arm of rotation (1.5" forward of CG in battery to 1.5" rear of CG during ejection). As a result as the slide moves to the rear, and then back forward, the sight window should not lift or dip enough for the dot to leave the window (assuming a proper hold, a good comp and the right load). Weight x arm = moment so the farther down the arm from the CG the greater the moment the sight will have on the gun in recoil (simple leverage). A frame mounted C-More Slide Ride (not STS) may put a few onces forward to help with recoil. However at a little over an ounce weight from an STS (plus the weight of the mount) it should not be a real factor. With that said, I am building my G17 as a slide ride with a 7 MOA STS. If you have the correct weight recoil spring, and your ejector/extractor are tuned right, the brass shouldn't hit the STS or you. Just my $.01 after taxes... AFTER THOUGHT: The slide to barrel fit on Glocks is very good so the dot and barel should re-zero shot after shot. However, being a combat gun the slide to frame fit is a bit loose, and that means the dot may not always realign with the barrel when returning to battery. Unless you plan to have the slide to frame fit tighened to eliminate the slop, the slide mounted optic should be more acurate shot after shot. In addition the Carver mount is bulky and requires a modified CR-Speed holster, the STS micro dot mount requires drilling and counter boring holes in your frame for installation. IMHO the slide mount is the cleanest, most accurate and easiest way to mount the dot. Now we're up to $.02 worth.

I decided to just get a new G17 Gen 3 to build on so I won't need the aftermarket slide after all.