Big Guy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 A local club is playing with the idea of requiring that the shooters become paid club members in order to shoot a local (Level I) match. Do you agree or disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Without knowing the membership requirements(cost, etc.), I have to disagree. You can't grow the sport or attract new club members by shutting people out. If they're having trouble managing the size of the matches, limit registration with members getting preference to pre-register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Typically this type of requirement is being pushed by insurance/liability issues. The simplest solution is adding an Event Membership to the clubs charter. So for a small fee $3-$5, a shooter buys an Event Membership for the day and is part of the fee the match pays the club for use of the facilities. This way the shooter is covered as a member for insurance and liability purposes. Requiring full membership in the club to shoot a Level 1 is not a good idea as it closes the door to a lot of shooters - new, visiting, etc. Also such a membership is just financial business between the USPSA club and the hosting facility/club. Requiring shooters to be full club members is a local rule and would have to pass the BOD, something not likely to happen without legal requirement and in that case every club in the state would likely need to apply for such a local variance from the BOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 our club give a discount on the match fee if you are a member, and a slightly higher price to non-members. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS101 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Is this a "cover our butts for insurance" decision? Or do they actually believe someone will pay $ to join their club just to shoot in their events? Seems like they are being very short-sighted... I know that I joined the club I belong to because I enjoyed shooting there during matches, and after experiencing several clubs in the area, thought it was the best fit for me... This will limit the club's exposure to potential new members... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Strongly disagree. If your area is anywhere near like ours there are 4 good local matches a month. There is no way I would join every club just to shoot an occasional match. I also, as a board member, make sure everybody knows that these guys are shooting at 4 different clubs a month and being forced to join will just end up with your club being dropped from their rotation. Hence ,you lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmerritt Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I agree with JFlowers, our club pays the host club $3.00 a head, basically for insurance. if our out of town shooters (about 90%) had to join the host club to shoot our match, we would have a very small squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It is a violation of the USPSA's rules to hold a USPSA match and then not allow a card carrying member to shoot there, subject to some very narrow exceptions with the permission of NHQ. In other words, if you want to have a "members only" club, don't hold USPSA matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Which rule does a members only policy violate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 As I understand, this is being proposed in order to limit the number of shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) If they're having trouble managing the size of the matches, limit registration with members getting preference to pre-register. How would you handle out of town shooters over local non-member shooters? Edited January 16, 2012 by Big Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 As I understand, this is being proposed in order to limit the number of shooters. I wish we had that problem. limiting shootes seems to be a laughable idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Some clubs limit the number of shooters to expidite the match not because they have a huge turnout. I don't know what the case is for Big Guy but I have seen this happen many times in other shooting sports. They want to get them in and out so the membership does not complain. As previously stated you can't do this at a USPASA match without approval of HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 As I understand, this is being proposed in order to limit the number of shooters. I wish we had that problem. limiting shootes seems to be a laughable idea Unless you have only 6 bays, 120+ shooters, and 6 hours of sunlight, and you are running 99-51 Single Tap Standards as the classifier. Be sure to drop off a bottle of the stats person's favorite drink at the stats shack, or some money to start a fund to buy some Palms for electronic scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) To provide some background info, the club in question runs a weekly 3-stage match and a monthly 4-stage match. They get approx. 60 shooters for their weekly matches and 80+ for their monthly matches. Weekly matches run from approx. 7:00 pm to 9-9:30 pm. The only monthly match I attended (with 80+ shooters) was finished around 12:30 pm. Edited January 17, 2012 by Big Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'd have to agree with my fellow posters, making membership a requirement to shoot a match is going to backfire. Several years ago when I was new to shooting I went to an IDPA match and was told if I wanted to shoot another match there I'd have to become a member. That was my first and last match at that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 For our weekly evening practice match you get a better rate if you are a member of our USPSA club ($30 annual). For the monthly match everyone pays the same fee. The Host facility requires either a membership or a daily $15 shoot fee. So overall you get by cheaper if you belong to our club and the range itself, but the monthly match would only set you back $35 ($20 + $15)if you were not a member of either organization. As a premium member of the range I pay the daily shoot fee up front so I shoot the monthly match for $20. A standard member would pay $30 ($20 + $10). I do not see a problem with requiring either a walk on daily use fee or a range membership if the club does not own the host range. If the club owns the range then there should not be any extra fee for a monthly match, but I do not see a problem with requiring membership if you are going to be using the range once or twice a week. I was on the BOD for the range we use for our weekly and monthly matches, and it took a lot of discussion to find a balance between expenses and the proper range fee to offset those expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It is a violation of the USPSA's rules to hold a USPSA match and then not allow a card carrying member to shoot there, subject to some very narrow exceptions with the permission of NHQ. In other words, if you want to have a "members only" club, don't hold USPSA matches. I thought that was in the rules myself but darned if I can find it right now. Maybe it's the 2:00 AM thing after working all day and I'm just overlooking it, maybe it's not there. Edit to add: I've shot four or five locals in a month and shoot at more ranges than that in a summer and some guys shoot way more. There's no way I could afford to join all the ranges I shoot at. Edited January 17, 2012 by SLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It is a violation of the USPSA's rules to hold a USPSA match and then not allow a card carrying member to shoot there, subject to some very narrow exceptions with the permission of NHQ. In other words, if you want to have a "members only" club, don't hold USPSA matches. I thought that was in the rules myself but darned if I can find it right now. Maybe it's the 2:00 AM thing after working all day and I'm just overlooking it, maybe it's not there. Edit to add: I've shot four or five locals in a month and shoot at more ranges than that in a summer and some guys shoot way more. There's no way I could afford to join all the ranges I shoot at. Section 6.4 talks about shooter credentials. The latter part of it talks what reasons an MD can have for barring a shooter, and having to file a report to USPSA. Nothing there about club membership, as I understand it though. Perhaps it's in the USPSA club affiliation paperwork that says something about not requiring club membership? Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of any of those documents. Anybody know? If we apply attitude that if something is not disallowed by the USPSA rulebook, it must be allowed (with the exception of Appendix D4), it sounds like a club is allowed to require membership. I'd be disappointed if a club did limit their USPSA participants to club members only, though. Edited January 17, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) there is a club/range I am a member of (I won't name any names here) but they have a 3 matches only rule. This club/range is set up as a 501(3)( c ), non-profit corporation. This rule was supposedly put in place....that non-members can only shoot a max of 3 matches out there, ever, because of tax purposes. Another club I am a member of is also a 501 (3)( c ) non-profit, but has always let non-members shoot as many matches as they pleased. I am left scratching my head....It sounds like one or both of these clubs needs to hire a new accountant. ® Edited January 17, 2012 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not an accountant, but have heard that some clubs limit their "profits" by having extra expenses by having a free match with food and raffles at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Strongly disagree. If your area is anywhere near like ours there are 4 good local matches a month. There is no way I would join every club just to shoot an occasional match. I also, as a board member, make sure everybody knows that these guys are shooting at 4 different clubs a month and being forced to join will just end up with your club being dropped from their rotation. Hence ,you lose! Same system around here. I have two club memberships, only one is an active competition club. The other is just for a practice range but it's closer. I shoot at two other clubs monthly where I am not a member. I would not be happy if forced to join. Joining some clubs is a major PITA. However, if a club is getting big turnouts for a match, I can see the issue. Lots of clubs simply do not have the ranges/facilities needed. If you have a 4 stage match and you get 80 shooters, that's a 20 member squad, which sucks. I can see members complaining about shooting the same amount but it taking all day to do it. I don't like to sit around waiting forever at majors, let alone a club match. Edited January 17, 2012 by BillD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 However, if a club is getting big turnouts for a match, I can see the issue. Lots of clubs simply do not have the ranges/facilities needed. If you have a 4 stage match and you get 80 shooters, that's a 20 member squad, which sucks. I can see members complaining about shooting the same amount but it taking all day to do it. I don't like to sit around waiting forever at majors, let alone a club match. Any ideas on how to solve this issue without turning away new or other non-member shooters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 More bays, earthwork, berms,drainage etc. All 3 of the ranges I attend monthly have done earthwork to accommodate more shooters in the last few years. It's hard to get some of the ranges to come off their money but USPSA and 3gun typically can generate a lot of money for a club. Every now and then you have to pay some back into equipment and range upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The range in question is owned by the County. The Club rents the range from the county for the matches. Multiple attempts to get the County to add shooting bays have been rejected for lack of funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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