455 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I am a foreign IDPA shooter and a while back I sent in my entry to participate in the World IDPA Shoot, fully intending to shoot in SSR. Unfortunately I put the circle in the wrong place on the form and I ended up in ESR. A few weeks back when I realized that I was in the wrong division, I sent an e-mail to head office about this but was not afforded the courtesy of a reply. Today, I called the office and they pulled my paperwork to take a look at it and I was simply informed that my form was clearly marked, ESR rather than SSR. OK, I have no problem in believing this, so what is the issue other than my stupidity which I will freely admit. I was simply told that in the match material it clearly states that no division changes are permitted so I am now stuck in ESR, like it or leave it and there is no alternative. One small problem, I don't have a 4 inch gun for ESR, due to the crazy gun laws in my country but I have one that complies with SSR. If I had a 4 inch gun for this division,I would have simply shrugged my shoulders and just got on with it, dumb and all as I may have felt about the logic that got me there. I thought this was supposed to be a World Shoot which implies to me that if IDPA is striving to be a global body there must be some consideration for the sad reality that international shooters are imposed with impediments that are not encountered within the U.S. Failing that, at least surely one would expect a modicum of common sense to be applied, especially when it is within the spirit of the event and encouraging international participation. When I was discussing the issue with IDPA HQ, Robert kindly offered to get me a loaner and I know enough folks in Florida that I can probably make my own arrangements if I really want to. That is not the point though, especially since the match is not full. The final kicker in this drama is, as I mentioned, there are still slots left so in theory I could make another application at $300 (in addition to the original $250 that I have already paid} to try and get a slot slot in SSR if I want to shoot in this division. In effect, this will be a fine of $300 for a circle in the wrong place on a form if I got the slot. Ooch! Does this make sense to anyone out there? Robert was very polite when I discussed this with him and while he explained the logic behind the no division change policy. Apparently, this is intended to stop competitors (and or sand baggers) from jumping divisions when they see the competition that they are facing. This is a hard and fast rule and sadly if you make a mistake like the one I did, you are lumped in with the guilty and must suffer the consequences. Regardless of the fact that the correction that you attempted to make represents the division that you normally shoot in. So the moral of the story is check your paperwork carefully if you plan to shoot a match like this with IDPA as a simple mistake could cost you badly. Better still, if you need them, make sure you find those glasses before you tackle the paperwork as this might also help you to avoid the issue entirely! As for myself I am so turned off by the stupidity of this situation that I am seriously considering kissing my entry fee goodby and spending the rest of my expenses on something else and forgetting about IDPA as a shooting activity. Am I out to lunch here, or do we need a few changes at IDPA to accommodate the ordinary shooter who is willing to stump up the fee to support a match like this? There is $250 for entry plus travel to Florida, hotels meals and so on and so on.... Perhaps I will soon be an ex IDPA member for daring to ask the question, in which case the debate will be somewhat academical for me and if that happens, you will be the first to know. If there are problem shooters in the U.S. swapping from division to division to gain advantage them sort them out and don't discourage new IDPA shooters (like myself) from visiting your county and trying to participate in an event by imposing a level of bureaucracy that, in my albeit biased opinion, beggars belief. Your thoughts please. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Perhaps they could just issue you a FTDR and move on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) It says on the application that you can get a refund until Sept 1st. I'd call them back and tell them you want to cancel your registration. If you still decide you don't want to go anymore, that is up to you, and I would fully understand. edit: I also see that it says payments from foreign shooters are by CC only. If IDPA isn't willing to change your registration or give you a refund I would contact the card company and file a dispute. Edited August 27, 2011 by waktasz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 What happens if you show up with inappropriate equipment for the division you specified? In IPSC they'd throw you into Open (assuming your gear isn't somehow prohibited in Open), but I have no idea what IDPA does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raincitywheel Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 To shoot an IDPA Major Match, Doesn't the IDPA require you to be classified in the division you intend to shoot? Are you classified in ESR? If not, must they not bump you to SSR or cancel/decline your application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffwalsh Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Pull out of the match then sign up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Rule makes no sence to me at all and I see no need for it!!!!!!!!! I am sorry you are being treated this way. Good luck in shat ever you do. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Pull out of the match then sign up again. yep, only cost you $50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slflr Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I will loan you holster and moon clip holders if you decide to shoot ESR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lora Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 If there are still plenty of slots left, the IDPA ruling is lacking wisdom. This is why I don't shoot IDPA. Why would you want to play with condo commanders or neighborhood Nazi's who only see a rule, and not the intent or spirit. I like Cliff's solution, cancel then reapply. I ssume there isn't a rule written specifically against that, and you win by their own strict interpretation of rules that they used against you initially. Or would that be a pre-empitve FTDR penalty. I hope they come to a logical conclusion soon for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Trying to phrase this in a way that doesnt violate forum guidelines, Get a refund, find another sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lentz Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) This is why i rarely shoot idpa anymore new rules are made up everyday. Edited August 27, 2011 by Lentz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I too was trying to reply without bashing IDPA as it is against forum rules. If you can get a refund, do so ASAP, then reapply. I understand the reason behind the policy but it seems that it should apply like 2 weeks before the match. I mean, what if my gun is stolen or breaks ? Perhaps they should take off the blinders, push back from the Kool-Aid cup and look at this from their customers point of view. It is a hell of a way to run a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
455 Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 I just sent a request for a refund on my initial entry for the match. On Monday I will send in a new registration form and this time around I guess I will pay more attention to ticking the correct boxes. Perhaps I will find my glasses for this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Be sure to let us know how it all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 This has got to be Bureaucratic Mindset. And it's so wrong on so many levels. If they were trying to make it easier on the Match Officials, which it would seem, it doesn't look like it works does it. Maybe they'll give you a FTDR for re-entering, after you shoot the match. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_J Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I can understand them having a set in stone rule about jumping classes it leads to a lot of unnecessary work and greater chance of the Match Admin making a mistake. But you still need to have common sense. If it is a foreign shooter who can not even legally own the gun to shoot the division for petes sake! This kind of thing leads to people not wanting to participate. 455, You made a mistake, and caught it in ample time to be corrected. Im sorry that they are being so idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hello: I think you are making a wise choice of cancelling your first entry and signing up again. I have seen guys look at the entry list for a match and change divisions so they can win some wood. They go to these matches with all the different setups just to win there class. It is not right but I have seen it done more than once Good luck and hope everything goes the way you want it to. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Find or start an ICORE club and kiss off IDPA and their stupid rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I understand their rules also, but disagree with their decision. What would someone be gaming? Its not like theyre paying out cash, or guns. Hopefully you guys even get a prize table (random draw) this year. I hope you get back in in SSR and it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Hamby Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Unfreekin believable. I actively compete in both IDPA and ICORE. There must be more to this story. I enjoy both the games. I will stop typing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I am amazed that this thread is still open! My advice is to bail on the entire match. If members start voting with their feet, maybe the company will start to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockCanMan Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Sorry I saw this thread too late. I live in Florida and am willing to let you borrow a 4" 625 with the equipment...But you would have to shoot in my squad...I am not willing to let the gun leave the range without me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
455 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 I have had further opportunity to explore this issue with IDPA HQ and IDPA Canada and there has been major issues at the U.S. nationals and larger matches due to people suddenly wishing to change divisions after they see who they are going to shot against. This gave the organizers major grief, so to try and combat this, they came up with a hard and fast rule that there would be no division changes after the shooting list has been posted. Due to my clerical error I simply fell victim of this hard and fast rule. Thanks to some input from Bob Bonefont at IDPA Canada I am happy to report that by withdrawing from the match and resubmitting a new entry, I am back in SSR. So guys, just be careful with the paperwork and don't screw up like I did. Hopefully I will see some of you guys at the match in Frostproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm surprised that neither of the sports has gone to an electronic method of registering shooters for major matches at least. USPSA has online squadding but you still have to send a paper form and a check to the MD to get registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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