ShootfastRunfaster Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I just finished the AR15 Targets TX State Tactical 2G and I observed an inordinate number of magazine related (or at least they seem to be) issues with shooters using Magpul P-MAGs. Some of the people that I saw having problems are very experienced competitors, and I hesitate to say that they were shooter induced problems. I saw a number of failures to feed with competitors using the P-MAG with the NC bolt-on extension, but I also saw the same with stock P-MAGS. I asked a couple of the shooters what had happened, and 3 of them had true double-feeds where they had 2 live rounds trying to enter the chamber at the same time. I recently attended a rifle/pistol course where the instructor was having the same thing happen while he was demonstrating the drills. Due to the design and polymer construction of the magazines, they do flex a lot near the feed lips. Could this be the culprit and could it be corrected by the inclusion of a thin metal liner like Glock magazines? I only have a handful of P-MAGs and have had only one issue with them. I have a 20 rounder that will not push the bolt catch up enought to engage the front of the bolt when the last shot is fired. I have also seen countless numbers of competitors run the P-MAGs with no problems at all. I am always cautious to run with the newest and latest, so I still run GI aluminum mags most of the time. The mag in the mag well of my work gun and all of my carry mags are aluminum GI. Magazines are mechanical devices so I expect them to fail at times, but this double feed issue involving P-MAGs has been happening before my eyes quite a lot recently. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtielke Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I haven't experienced any significant problems with P-Mags and didn't really notice it this weekend. I did see a much higher rate of AR's failing in general this weekend than normal. Much of what I saw on my squads was bad ammo and new, untested guns. The only thing I have noticed with the regular P-Mags is if I lean forward when I monopod with them they don't lock the bolt back. I did give up on my Nordic P-Mag extension as it never worked properly and I went back to the Tripp 52 rounder. I've had many people tell me their Nordic extensions work flawlessly but I could not find the problem with mine so it sits in the back of the closet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 you may have better eyes than I do, but its normally that in the rush to get shooting we don't wait Long enough to check that the round has extracted before letting the bolt go forward. The coupler for 47 rounds should have the lower edge removed to take the bump out of the jump when the follower moves past the coupler. if not the coupler will drag and the top round just kinda bounce around in the top part of the mag. I do have a buddy that can make even a P- mag not work though He is the one that broke the shotgun on the game stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I have had great luck with the Pmags, both bone stock and with the NC ext. My department has switched exclusively to them also and no one has complained of experiencing any failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Never had a failure that I could attribute to the mag. My primary mag is a P-Mag with NC 47/48rd extension - only failures I ever had with it were Sunday at the TX 2-gun and I attribute that to a new (not fully tested) gun. The same mag ran perfectly on Saturday in my older rifle. Also use the standard 30rd P-mags with great success, including last deployment to Iraq a few years back (05-06). Have never had a jam with any of their 30rd mags. I used to think the old USGI aluminum mags were as good as it got, until I started using the P-mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Mine run great, NC extension and 30 rounders. Did start having some failures, with my GI coupled 30 rounders lately, so put them in the practice junk pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHTampa Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 My brigade oredered P-Mags for everybody last spring in anticipation of our current OEF deployment. We got them all in, OD Green with windows, and before my battalion could issue them we were told to return them because the feed lips were cracking. We sent them all back and a few weeks later got black ones with windows. During our JRTC rotation we had problems with the magazine catch scraping the top lip of the notch where the magazine catches just enough to make the magazines not catch. It didn't happen to all of them, just some, but the result was you could pull the magazine straight out without hitting the mag release button. The only other problem I've had is that a newer full magazine is difficult to seat in an M4 with the bolt locked forward. Was doing some drills the other day and tried it with all 7 of mine, the newer ones were stiffer, the older ones much more functional. I could do it on the new ones, but I had to bang on the bottom of the magazine as opposed to just seating it in like all of my other mags. It was like seating my 20 round SVI mags in an Edge. By contrast the new aluminum ones we have were no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 In the last several years I have had 3 that split at the spine. The most recent I noticed a couple days ago. This failure will allow the feedlips to spread and cause a double feed. It happened once to me shooting a stage at Ft Benning 3 yrs ago, and this has led to my practice of checking that area before every stage. It is easiest to see with a full mag of ammo. The cracks are so fine as to be invisible unless their is pressure on the feedlips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The biggest problem with Pmags that I see is people loading 31 into them and trying to load them into a bolt forward gun. Not enough room in them to do that. My NC ext. works great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc2125 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Have had good luck running pmags so far, lancers also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmccrock Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 SUBSTANTIAL amounts of dirt blowing around. I noticed lots of people with open bolts and all kinds of dirt in really bad places. It would not matter what kind of mag, that will mess up an AR. Was busy yesterday, so gonna clean the guns today. Probably gonna take a hose to the Sunday rifle to clean the dirt off. Never seen it so dirty, inside or out. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I havent had any problems with my 20 rounders, 30 rounders, 30s with NC extensions or my coupled 30s (makes a 60 round mag). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Never had any problems here with 20 or 30 rounders or with my Nordic P-Mag coupler (I have one of the original versions). Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiackid Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Haven't had problems with mine during matches, nor did we have any issues with ours while deployed in southern Afghanistan (some of the crappiest conditions you could put a weapon through with all of the dust and mud). It looks like it may be a QA/QC issue in the production process, as others had mentioned they had whole batches that didn't seem to perform well while others had very little to no issues. Also, for what it's worth, I have read that colored or dyed plastics are slightly less durable than the standard black. Although I am not familiar with the whole manufacturing process, supposedly plastic comes black in its original state. When dyes are added as in the OD, Foliage and Tan mags, it can have a very small effect on the strength of that plastic - this could possibly contribute to the cracking or easily worn feed lips causing the double feeds. I still fully believe that the pmags are well ahead of the standard issue mags both in durability and reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 We have been using them for several years with no issues at all. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) sorry double post Jim Edited February 22, 2011 by GentlemanJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I've been using them for years with no problems either (20s, 30s, Nordic Extended 48s). However, for my mags that get left loaded, I only use aluminum or steel bodies mags, always have. One of the local departments here bought a bunch of P-Mags and druing their qualification, after they had them for about 2 years, they started to have problems. Spine cracks and deformed feedlips were found when I looked at them. I told them I thoguht leaving them loaded was a bad idea. The armorer called MagPul and was told they should NOT be left loaded for extended periods of time. They use them for training, but went back to metal mags for duty. If you are relying on the mag for your life, I'd call MagPul and ask them myself, or better yet, just use metal mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Haven't had problems with mine during matches, nor did we have any issues with ours while deployed in southern Afghanistan (some of the crappiest conditions you could put a weapon through with all of the dust and mud). It looks like it may be a QA/QC issue in the production process, as others had mentioned they had whole batches that didn't seem to perform well while others had very little to no issues. Also, for what it's worth, I have read that colored or dyed plastics are slightly less durable than the standard black. Although I am not familiar with the whole manufacturing process, supposedly plastic comes black in its original state. When dyes are added as in the OD, Foliage and Tan mags, it can have a very small effect on the strength of that plastic - this could possibly contribute to the cracking or easily worn feed lips causing the double feeds. I still fully believe that the pmags are well ahead of the standard issue mags both in durability and reliability. In my regular job, I run an extrusion machine. (polyethylene and previously a couple of other polies) Plastics generally come in a virgin clear/white form. To this are added colors with or without a UV inhibitor. UV is what kills plastics. If you keep anything plastic out of the sun or other sources of UV light, you should be good to go as far as brittleness or loss of elasticity. Some plastics like polyethylene shrink over time. Oxygen, and UV are very powerful in their ability to break down materials. Extreme cold will harden most plastics to some extent, but not all. What could be the case is that a batch of virgin was not delivered with the proper formula. If that is the case, a molded part could cool out of spec, be brittle, or too elastic. They look the same in the gaylord that they come in. I have had one labeled the proper formula, only to notice by the draw-down and the consistency out of the die, that it wasn't to spec. If this was out of a silo, you could potentially make thousands of units without knowing that they are out of spec. Really have a lot of trust with your suppliers to put together the right raw materials for your finished products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I bought 6 Pmags with windows about 3 years ago. Last year I started getting double feeds with a couple of them (including 2 double feeds on stage 7 at Ironman) and I thought it was something wrong with my gun. As soon as I swapped for Brownell aluminum mags I never had the problem again. No mags are perfect, but if you use Pmags I suggest that you change them every year or 2. I'm now using HK steel mags and have not had any problems. I tossed the offending Pmags and remaining ones are for practice only. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiackid Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Haven't had problems with mine during matches, nor did we have any issues with ours while deployed in southern Afghanistan (some of the crappiest conditions you could put a weapon through with all of the dust and mud). It looks like it may be a QA/QC issue in the production process, as others had mentioned they had whole batches that didn't seem to perform well while others had very little to no issues. Also, for what it's worth, I have read that colored or dyed plastics are slightly less durable than the standard black. Although I am not familiar with the whole manufacturing process, supposedly plastic comes black in its original state. When dyes are added as in the OD, Foliage and Tan mags, it can have a very small effect on the strength of that plastic - this could possibly contribute to the cracking or easily worn feed lips causing the double feeds. I still fully believe that the pmags are well ahead of the standard issue mags both in durability and reliability. In my regular job, I run an extrusion machine. (polyethylene and previously a couple of other polies) Plastics generally come in a virgin clear/white form. To this are added colors with or without a UV inhibitor. UV is what kills plastics. If you keep anything plastic out of the sun or other sources of UV light, you should be good to go as far as brittleness or loss of elasticity. Some plastics like polyethylene shrink over time. Oxygen, and UV are very powerful in their ability to break down materials. Extreme cold will harden most plastics to some extent, but not all. What could be the case is that a batch of virgin was not delivered with the proper formula. If that is the case, a molded part could cool out of spec, be brittle, or too elastic. They look the same in the gaylord that they come in. I have had one labeled the proper formula, only to notice by the draw-down and the consistency out of the die, that it wasn't to spec. If this was out of a silo, you could potentially make thousands of units without knowing that they are out of spec. Really have a lot of trust with your suppliers to put together the right raw materials for your finished products. ... And there you have a much better explanation straight from the source. The best thing about these forums is that there's usually a subjet matter expert for any given topic and you learn something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootfastRunfaster Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thanks for all the replies and the info provided. Judging from others' experiences, I would have to say that they are no more prone to failure than any other type as long as you pay attention to them and check them out regularly. That being said, I have a big box of aluminum magas that I will still be using for a while. Jamie, thanks for the coupler modification info and I will make that mod when I get up the nerve to try one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootfastRunfaster Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Haven't had problems with mine during matches, nor did we have any issues with ours while deployed in southern Afghanistan (some of the crappiest conditions you could put a weapon through with all of the dust and mud). It looks like it may be a QA/QC issue in the production process, as others had mentioned they had whole batches that didn't seem to perform well while others had very little to no issues. Also, for what it's worth, I have read that colored or dyed plastics are slightly less durable than the standard black. Although I am not familiar with the whole manufacturing process, supposedly plastic comes black in its original state. When dyes are added as in the OD, Foliage and Tan mags, it can have a very small effect on the strength of that plastic - this could possibly contribute to the cracking or easily worn feed lips causing the double feeds. I still fully believe that the pmags are well ahead of the standard issue mags both in durability and reliability. In my regular job, I run an extrusion machine. (polyethylene and previously a couple of other polies) Plastics generally come in a virgin clear/white form. To this are added colors with or without a UV inhibitor. UV is what kills plastics. If you keep anything plastic out of the sun or other sources of UV light, you should be good to go as far as brittleness or loss of elasticity. Some plastics like polyethylene shrink over time. Oxygen, and UV are very powerful in their ability to break down materials. Extreme cold will harden most plastics to some extent, but not all. What could be the case is that a batch of virgin was not delivered with the proper formula. If that is the case, a molded part could cool out of spec, be brittle, or too elastic. They look the same in the gaylord that they come in. I have had one labeled the proper formula, only to notice by the draw-down and the consistency out of the die, that it wasn't to spec. If this was out of a silo, you could potentially make thousands of units without knowing that they are out of spec. Really have a lot of trust with your suppliers to put together the right raw materials for your finished products. ... And there you have a much better explanation straight from the source. The best thing about these forums is that there's usually a subjet matter expert for any given topic and you learn something new every day. I agree. There is tons of info on here if you want to look it up. The info from JimmyZip echoes what I was told by a Glock Armorer/Instructor about the frame production for the Glock pistol. The Glock polymer starts out white before the dyes are added along with UV inhibitors. One of the students in the class asked why Glock did not produce a white framed pistol for the US market as he thought that it would be a big hit. The instructor replied that they had over 100,000 pistols on backorder around the world and that Gaston Glock didn't really see a need to change things with the current success that they have. He did go on to say that a limited number (his guess was less than 10) of white framed 17's were produced and presented as gifts to Austrian royalty. Edited February 23, 2011 by ShootfastRunfaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespid_Wasp Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I experienced a double feed with a gently used PMAG (black. non windowed. m revision) last summer at a club level 3-gun match. Initially I was very impressed with how slick they are to load (as well as overall function and durability) but it seems that they may have some issues. I will check the spine of the offending mag when I get a chance. Edited February 23, 2011 by Vespid_Wasp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I have had good luck with P mags. The only issues I have seen is some feed licks cracking and rendering the mag useless in extreme cold weather. (-30 below in Fairbanks) The rest of the time they have been flawless for me and I have not worn them out. The mags in Fairbanks that failed were being tested by the Alaska State Trooper SWAT team to see if the mags would fail. I am also very interested in the new Warfighter mags out from Lancer. Edited February 23, 2011 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredr Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Also, for what it's worth, I have read that colored or dyed plastics are slightly less durable than the standard black. i heard the same thing in a pat rogers carbine class re: durability/reliability of colored (tan, foliage green) PMAG's vs. standard black. His comment was if you want the mag to be a color other than black, buy a black one and spraypaint it. as a civilian, it makes no difference to me so I use the black ones, tho I have seen a small # of blaze orange mags that were absolutely fantastic when it came to finding your dropped empties on the grass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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