DMAC Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I started 3 gun a two years ago and I decided to get a K-Dot and I've been happy. Well I picked up a second rifle and decided to get a Z6i with BRT. Now it seems that Premier has their 1.1-8x out and soon/not so soon it looks like the S&B, CQBSS, and Trijicon will have something with an 8X top end as well. I know that with practice, some can shoot out past 400 yards with irons well. For most 3 gun matches, there is probably little advantage of going past 4X (maybe just a handful of shots per match). It seems like only the hardcore competitors, or people sponsored buy a scope manufacturer will likely be stepping up to 8X. Second thought, the really top competitors practice so much and are so good with their current set up, it probably will make little difference and most probably won't switch unless their sponsor gets it for them or they just want on to try it for other reasons. I'm just curious as to how many of you plan to see which 1-8X offering is to your liking and plan to purchase one in the next year or so? I realize that a scope like this will have applications outside of 3 Gun as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I had a Simmons 1.5-5 Diamond Pro for 4 years, liked the 5 power. Got a Burris XTR 1-4, love it, but as my eyes get older, (over 55) I miss the 5 power and would really like a 6. I only shoot 3 matches a year where shots are over 300 yds, so will stay with the Burris 1-4 until a reasonably priced 1-6 or 1-8 with Burris type reticle comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Trail3 is pulling yer lariat. 3.5-4 is all you'll ever need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I think 4 is plenty for most matches but on occasion it is nice to have 6x. Once you get past about 6....having a calibrated reticle in the rear focal plane only allows you to use it on a fixed power. So it would have to be in the front focal plane so that its calibrated at the full range of magnification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 When I switch to open I'll follow Outerlimits advice! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The local matches I shoot always has a target or two out to 350-400 yards. I'm getting a 2-8X. To me a higher top-end is easier to hit with. Will it be faster? I'll see what it does to my transitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbauer67 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I shoot a 2-7, or at least I used too until that gun got stolen. But anyways if you learn to point shoot, you will not loose that much time on the close up targets, but you will gain time on the targets that are far out. It really helps make those targets out past 300 a lot easier shooting with the extra magnification. On the other hand if you rarely shoot past 300, then a 1-4 is perfect. My feeling is that the optics companies are working on developing 1-6 and 1-8 optics, but they are going to be expensive and will take some time to get right, while the current ones on the market are good but not a big enough advantage to cover the extra cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 "1-4,1-6,1-8-How much is enough?" 1. Ask the HM or irons guys. Real question is: "how much do you want?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Ken, hit the nail on the head!!!!! its not what you need, its what you want!!!!!! what you NEED is more practice, what you want is to be able to go out without much or any practice and hit targets. Granted some MD's purposefully create the desire for magnification by using poor target presentations, with little to no contrast, or place targets in shadows where they disappear in certain light conditions. But all things equal, most shooters would rather throw $$$ into equipment than the equal $$$ into practice. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 My 1st "3gun" magnified optic was a 4-12, the next year I went to a 3-9, then 2 years at 2-7, last year 1.5-6, this year 1-4. I might actually make it to Irons by 50 at this rate. The more I figure out what I am doing, the less I rely on magnification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaTactical Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Ken, hit the nail on the head!!!!! its not what you need, its what you want!!!!!! what you NEED is more practice, what you want is to be able to go out without much or any practice and hit targets. Granted some MD's purposefully create the desire for magnification by using poor target presentations, with little to no contrast, or place targets in shadows where they disappear in certain light conditions. But all things equal, most shooters would rather throw $$ into equipment than the equal $$ into practice. trapr But I like having cool looking stuff on my rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon9 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Ken, hit the nail on the head!!!!! its not what you need, its what you want!!!!!! what you NEED is more practice, what you want is to be able to go out without much or any practice and hit targets. Granted some MD's purposefully create the desire for magnification by using poor target presentations, with little to no contrast, or place targets in shadows where they disappear in certain light conditions. But all things equal, most shooters would rather throw $$$ into equipment than the equal $$$ into practice. trapr +1. I agree wholeheartedly, I just told my wife I am buying 3 more cases of practice ammo. It is time for me to quit talking and get out to the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMAC Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Obviously practice is most important and iron shooters don't use optics. Unfortunately, my local range will only allow rifle shooting from a bench out to 100 yards which is pretty useless except for checking function and zero. I was just curious to see if anyone is considering the 1-8X platform who shoots with optics and so far the answer is universally "no". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Longest shots I ever faced in a match with my AR were 450ish yards at the MGM IronMan. No problemo with my 4x TA-01. Guy on my squad cleaned them with Irons and 55gr PMC. Another guy with a 1st Gen CQT cleaned em set at 2x. Agreed with the rest, rather stay with something I have gotten to know well than keep changing my setup chasing the next equipment holy grail. IMHO, once you have a JP trigger in your AR, a reliable sight system you know and a good zero on it, you are always better off shooting more than you are continuing to futz with your shjt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 DMAC some iron sight shooters do use optics, I use them for all sorts of other shooting, i remember a good friend of mine telling me I would NEED more than 10x to hit targets in the STC game. You don't, you just need to practice, and be comfortable with YOUR gear, I also shared with that same friend that amazingly you can hit smallish targets with no more than 4x, way out to 400+. He now believes me, but it took practice. I use a 15x scope for my LR shooting but most everyone else uses 20x and more, I choose to not magnify the mirage, I just want to see the targets. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I just got a z6i BRT, I don't see myslef trading it in any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 ... But all things equal, most shooters would rather throw $$$ into equipment than the equal $$$ into practice. trapr Well said Trapr much easier to put $ chasing the ever-elusive optimal piece of gear than to go out there in the freezing cold for some trigger time Remember the nay-sayers said about using the TR21 1.25-4x with a post reticle, that you can't shoot past 300 yds with it? I think EMiller has proved them wrong in the last 5 years at RM3G. Basically one can just throw money at it if he wishes, but the bottom line is know your ballistic and forget about looking for the 'holy-grail' of 3 gun optic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The more I figure out what I am doing, the less I rely on magnification. I have come to the same conclusion. I used a Z6I for a year or so and went back to a 1-4. I found, quite by accident, that when I had forgotten to turn up the power on long range stages, they were some of my best. I have not missed or regretted going back to a 1-4. I am not planning on changing anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 A 1-4 TR21 is like $750? A Meopta is $800? My 2-8 is $260. Who's throwing money around again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 A 1-4 TR21 is like $750? A Meopta is $800? My 2-8 is $260. Who's throwing money around again? Dude, the post started with 1-8, 1.1-8, these are not $260 . Sure I got one of those $260 2-8 Nikon M223 too, for my prairie dog gun, and it is fine piece of glass for the $. Again, we were talking about 1-8 specifically, and it is like $3k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3-Gun Sweden Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 There's a Schmidt & Bender 1-8 PM coming out. Soon I hope, otherwise I'll get the Z6i. Altough you may not need it for IPSC/3GUN really, I think one benefit is that you have the option to go out to x8 if you need to for other purposes. Test the rifle, long range sniping etc., and I presume the dra back is only the cost and not so much added weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 There's a Schmidt & Bender 1-8 PM coming out. Soon I hope, otherwise I'll get the Z6i. Altough you may not need it for IPSC/3GUN really, I think one benefit is that you have the option to go out to x8 if you need to for other purposes. Test the rifle, long range sniping etc., and I presume the dra back is only the cost and not so much added weight. The 1-8's I have seen/handled were quite big and heavy. And as you mentioned quite costly...enough so that you could probably build a dedicated rifle with good glass for the "other" purposes you had in mind....and have money left over for ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3-Gun Sweden Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Not saying it's light, but I think the Z6i is the same. About 650 grams. Schmidt & Bender 1-8x24 PM Short Dot Info and videos here: http://www.3gun.se/showthread.php?13-Kikarsikte-för-IPSC-Rifle-Schmidt-amp-Bender-1-8x24-PM-Short-Dot&highlight=bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILDOTS Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I like my short dot and it is going to be my last 3-gun scope. The dot size staying the same wold be nice though. I personally don't need the 8 power and I can not afford it any way. I have spent my whole shooting career(if you can call it that) trying to buy my way to success, its been fun but not very productive. Ammo would have been a better choice but hey, I do have some cool stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 First off, I don't know squat about 3 Gun. Rocky Mountain 3 Gun was my first match. I believe there were only two stages with a couple of targets where I used the 8x on my IOR. What I noticed was the 4x range provided me with enough field of vision and magnification to do most every shot. The bonus steel on the one stage I hit using the 8x. I really did not need it for most of the other shots. Excellent glass at 4x or 6x might be all that is needed in what little experience I have with 3 Guns. Having said that, it is nice to know the 8x is there if I need it. It is like the 4 wheel drive on my 4Runner, I have not used it very often in the last 240,000 miles but when I did I sure did like having it. Good glass is more important to me than magnification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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