R112mercer Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 You can actually make fast & accurate hits out past 15 yards. I use to qualify with mine out to 25. At 25 I was still able to keep all the shots on target. I would say 15 yds is the effective range for being fast & accurate. I carry one on occasion when the 38 snub fits my wardrobe better. As some of the other guys mentioned the snubbies are great for carrying in your front pants pocket or jacket pocket. When I worked Narcotics I carried a 642 exactly that way. Since I was usually at very close range with the guys I was dealing with I figured I'd be able to get the snubbie into action very quickly, and you couldn't tell I was carrying it. With the gun in my pants pocket I could just keep my hands in my pocket, on the gun, if I felt I might need it. Also, I could feign that I was going for my money (also kept in that pocket) if I got robbed. Luckily I never had to use it. As for accuracy, when I teach the range and qualify guys with snubbies, whenever they say: "This is only for close work" or "You can't hit with this thing too far out" I'll take their gun, take them to the far end of the range (about 35 yards) and click off five head shots on the FBI "Q" target. You do have to take a little time to make the shots, but you can do it if you practice. The greatest, highest capacity, most stopping/knockdown/killing/hurting/maiming caliber, most reliable, super concealeable, exotic alloyed, Star Trek phaser ain't worth a damn if you can't hit with it. Get a good, reliable gun in any of many appropriate calibers and PRACTICE! Plenty of bad guys were taken out with Model 10's with .38 LSWC's, cap and ball revolvers, and single shot flintlocks (!). The one thing in common with the guys who won fights with those guns were guts, and superior skills and tactics then their opponents. Rarely do you lose a fight or a match because your gear wasn't as good as the other guy, usually it's because his ability outmatched yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Got nothing to do with need or likely hood, If you can carry more power, and more capacity in the same weight and thinner profile with the same recoil in a platform similar to one you shoot matches with why on earth wouldnt you ? There is no advantage whatsoever to a less powerful, fatter, lower capacity, hard to shoot gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 A stick is enough weapon for self defense. Beyond that it's just personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 If......... you practice with it until it becomes like an extension of you. If you get really accurate with it within 15yds at speed. IF you can get to where you are hitting easily with it at that distance, and make reloads that are quick, deliberate, and unfailing. Then it wouldn't matter what it was. You will be good with it, and that will make you head and shoulders above most. That is ultimately where you want to be at least for self defense. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Springer Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Got nothing to do with need or likely hood, If you can carry more power, and more capacity in the same weight and thinner profile with the same recoil in a platform similar to one you shoot matches with why on earth wouldnt you ? There is no advantage whatsoever to a less powerful, fatter, lower capacity, hard to shoot gun. Kahr PM9 vs S&W 642 the Kahr is SLIGHTLY narrower but they are both right at an inch wide. The Kahr has the advantage of being able to carry two more rounds and it's shorter by about an inch. Kahr is listed round $750 and a 642 can be had for around $400 as a secondary gun. A J frame is no harder to shoot than a Kahr as even in a 9mm those little guns kick like a mule. Then you have reliability. Click bang or stove pipes, FTE, FT this FT that..... Like I said I carry a 1911 95% of the time but for a trip to the corner store a little .38 is fine. Carry a ninja sword and a bazooka if you want I'm just saying a .38 is more than adequate for 99.99999999% of situtations and there is no need for the OP to go look for something else if he already has a 442. JMO Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 I carry an ancient S&W model 49 snubie in 38 with handloaded werewolf bullets. No bad guy I have shown it to has laughed at it yet Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aglifter Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) Not much add, other than revolvers are more fragile and jam prone than most people think. Keep it spotless, and use a pocket holster, and look at a sub-compact Glock - maybe an M&P My 329 NG was damaged to the point of not functioning when it fell from my hip to the pavement. I doubt there is an auto that fragile. Edited December 20, 2010 by Aglifter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1911 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Kahr PM9 vs S&W 642 the Kahr is SLIGHTLY narrower but they are both right at an inch wide. The Kahr has the advantage of being able to carry two more rounds and it's shorter by about an inch. Kahr is listed round $750 and a 642 can be had for around $400 as a secondary gun. A J frame is no harder to shoot than a Kahr as even in a 9mm those little guns kick like a mule. Then you have reliability. Click bang or stove pipes, FTE, FT this FT that..... I have a 642 and a PM9. While I usually carry a 1911, I do use pocket carry in hot weather, and on those days my 642 sits in my safe and my PM9 rides in my pocket. Both the 642 and PM9 have relatively long triggers. Even after a trigger job, though, the PM9 trigger is lighter and smoother than the 642. Neither are what I would choose for an extended range session. But while the PM9 does have a fair bit of recoil, I find the 642 downright painful to shoot. I find the PM9 far easier to shoot accurately than the 642. The PM9 has real sights, whereas the 642 has a shallow gutter in the top strap as a rear sight. As stated above, the PM9 has a large capacity and is far easier for me to reload quickly. I also find the PM9 easier to conceal in my pocket. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Was the question which type of gun is the optimal or if the .38 Special is a viable choice??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Merlin, I asked myself what the question was a couple of times. lol Let me copy it straight from the OP. Simple enough question, not wanting to start a caliber war. I recently picked up a 442 and love how light and easy it is to carry. When I look at the caliber on paper, I wonder if it is something for everyday carry. Any opinions would be appreciated. I did a few searches on BE and couldn't really come up with anything. Thanks in advance as always. Lee So, I read that as... Is the ballistic of 38spl. questionable, out of a snubbie ? Then, it seems, we went into some other stuff. In a "similar" sized package...we can have 357mag (but pay more for it) or 9mm in an automatic. My mind...goes to the 327mag, also...for this sized gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pstmstr Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I've got a pm9 and a S&W 340, I often carry both. The j frame is quicker out of a pocket, I can shoot the kahr better. This time of year, the j frame in a jacket pocket with your hand on it is a pretty good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I agree a lot with r112...... you gotta be able to run your gun....... of course you should carry a 6.5 inch 29 like dirty harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 There is something strangely familiar about this discussion. Didn't the gun writers have this discussion in every gun rag in the mid 1980s? It seemed like they went from revo vs auto to wonder 9 vs 45 to whatever they do now. I don't read them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasond Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 You can kill a lion with one round of .22, if you walk up to him and shoot him in the ear. I'm not that tactical of a guy, but I'm guessing people generally run away when you show them that you have a gun. Failing that, first guy to score a good hit wins. Failing that, you'll want something belt fed, because you shouldn't have hung around that long! I carry around a really pretty Ruger SP101 in a belt holster with speer 135 .357s. I got the boss a 642 with the same bullets in .38+P and full size grips. Sometimes she lets me borrow it, but it's a little big for a pocket without the boot grips it came with. In my experience, miniaturizing pistols doesn't make them more reliable, so the revos just work for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 I carry an ancient S&W model 49 snubie in 38 with handloaded werewolf bullets. No bad guy I have shown it to has laughed at it yet Jim Would those be silver tipped? I mean that is the common ammo that the latest literature suggests as far as werewolves are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 (edited) I have a S&W M&P360. If 38+p isnt enough, then a 357 mag 158gr Fed Nyclad will be. I actually just picked it up tonight, drew blood on the first shot. Watch out for the cylinder release, its sharp! The recoil wasnt as bad as I thought it would be though but the trigger is HORRIBLE. Some dryfire and maybe a bobbed hammer in the future. Edited December 22, 2010 by DWFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arizonaguide Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 (edited) I also have a 442 that I LOVE! (3500+rds, IN CLASSES...and without a hiccup!) It's easy to carry concealed in AZ warm weather, so I don't leave it at home. It fits my hand with a "natural point" so that I'm as accurate with it as a longer barrel at defensive ranges. I feel that with the right +P ammo I'm pretty much on par with the 9mm. I prefer a heavy-fast bullet, and I have gone with the +P 158gr LSWCHP...which has a GOOD track record. Another round that has a decent weight and good track record is the good old 148gr WC. I have always wondered why they don't come up with a good +P in a 180grain FN or WC for the .38special. Edited December 29, 2010 by arizonaguide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtorre Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 30 spcl + P is specially with the self denfense loads out there is a good piece to carry. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohboy Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Regarding caliber choice, there is nothing wrong with quality .38 spcl ammo (+P or not). Shot placement is the key. Also keep in mind that handgun calibers are "defensive" rounds and not "one shot stop" wonders. IMO, find a quality firearm that suits your specific needs and lifestyle and practice like crazy with it! Like someone mentioned above, many people have been killed with "lesser" calibers and on the flip side, many people have survived after being shot multiple times with larger calibers....go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911vm Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I also have and primary carry a 442. I am a carpenter and cannot carry on my waist so it is pocket or ankle holster. the primary choice of a revolver is that both methods of carry are very dirty and the reliability of a revolver is much batter the same auto. also cannot shoot more then ones with a same auto out of a jacket pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 if you get past the unsubstantiated emotion based opinions which the gun world is more than full of look at the actual numbers, 38 special is a very low powered round especially when fired from a snubby, alot of factory ammo wont even make minor power factor in service revolvers. Now whether this weaker round is powerful enough is up for endless debate. But until recoil is an issue more power is always better and more capacity is better. However lets compare it to another basic carry gun , a 9mm Kahr. The kahr is flatter, holds more ammo, holds more powerful ammo, can weigh the same or less depending on model, can be reloaded faster with an easier to carry reload. 38 snubbies are popular for the same reason 30/30 leveractions are popular for deer hunting. There are way better tools for the job but people simply just like them. I disagree. There are times when my 642 can do what an auto can't. I carry my 642 in the front pocket of my overcoat in cold weather. I can fire that gun from inside the pocket (repeatedly if necessary). You would not likely be able to do that with an auto. I like the 38+p in a 642 for a carry option in certain circumstances. But, no gun is right for all circumstances especially since we have to conceal them. If I could carry in the open then I would have a 5" limited gun with 20 round mags on most of the time. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Chris, didn't Ayoob publish a piece a few years ago that featured photos of our buddy Scott ("Where's my backup bucket?") Hattrup walking the city streets wearing a 4" 629 openly in a hip holster? Where was those pics taken? KC? For some reason, I have it in my head it was in Phoenix...... Then again, maybe the whole thing was a crazy dream, like that commercial where the guy is sitting at the kitchen table with Abe Lincoln and a talking beaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I like the 38+p in a 642 for a carry option in certain circumstances. But, no gun is right for all circumstances especially since we have to conceal them. If I could carry in the open then I would have a 5" limited gun with 20 round mags on most of the time. Chris I'd have to agree, except I'd bite the bullet and go for the 170+mm Mag. In an SOB presentation it's the perfect backup to the venerable 38+P five shot. 20 to 30 rounds of .40 will make up for whatever 5 rounds of 38 can't. Of course it would never make box/gauge so it you'd be disqualified on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Chris, didn't Ayoob publish a piece a few years ago that featured photos of our buddy Scott ("Where's my backup bucket?") Hattrup walking the city streets wearing a 4" 629 openly in a hip holster? Where was those pics taken? KC? For some reason, I have it in my head it was in Phoenix...... Then again, maybe the whole thing was a crazy dream, like that commercial where the guy is sitting at the kitchen table with Abe Lincoln and a talking beaver. I've never heard of that article before. But, the talking beaver made me laugh. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I like the 38+p in a 642 for a carry option in certain circumstances. But, no gun is right for all circumstances especially since we have to conceal them. If I could carry in the open then I would have a 5" limited gun with 20 round mags on most of the time. Chris I'd have to agree, except I'd bite the bullet and go for the 170+mm Mag. In an SOB presentation it's the perfect backup to the venerable 38+P five shot. 20 to 30 rounds of .40 will make up for whatever 5 rounds of 38 can't. Of course it would never make box/gauge so it you'd be disqualified on the spot. Now that you mention it, I do have a couple 170mm 40 mags that hold 28 rounds. 28 plus 1 would keep me from needing a backup mag. That's perfect for carry. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now