The tiny 1911

[twodownzero]

From what I have been reading here some people have recoil issues with the 3" 1911 in 45ACP, what about putting a 1" comp on the front? Sure you effectively have a 4" gun, but wouldn't the comp give you that much more control? I have also considered taking a 3" model and porting the barrel/slide for a sort of built in comp, any thoughts?

A comp would decrease the recoil impulse, blind you if it was dark outside, create even more blast, and probably make the gun less reliable.

I would have definitely bought the STI Escort if the front strap was naked or it came with checkering. That STIpling isn't winning them any sales on the Trojan or the Escort. I even emailed their sales department and asked if they would take a custom order for an Escort that was checkered...no go.

So I've got my first Springer. And it's a bonus that it's a 9mm.

[Duane Thomas]

Actually a comp would increase the recoil impulse (defined as energy coming straight to the rear, i.e. how hard the gun hits your hand) while decreasing muzzle flip (how far the front of the gun comes up when you fire it).

Agree on the increase in muzzle blast - with a comp the gun is MUCH louder because the noise is coming up and back at you instead of just out the front of the gun. Also agree on the increase in muzzle flash - the unburned powder gases, instead of going out the front of the gun, are shot up right across your line of sight and will no doubt instantly destroy night vision and quite possibly effectively blind the user after the first shot in dim light.

Also to be considered, a comp makes it downright dangerous to fire the gun from the "protected position" in close to the body. I know of two people who've fired Hybrid compensated Glocks from the protected position. In both cases they were nearly blinded when hot gas, unburned powder and brass shavings flowed up under their shooting glasses, in one case blowing the glasses off their face and across the range.

The compensated defensive handgun: an idea whose time has NOT come. And never will.

[ed_henry]

I have a TIKI from SVI that is exactly what you asked for. A comped 3" 45. It is a great gun but $$$$

[Joe4d]

comps and ports dont belong on defensive guns, fire one from retention and you could end up blind

[Duane Thomas]

From what I have been reading here some people have recoil issues with the 3" 1911 in 45ACP, what about putting a 1" comp on the front? Sure you effectively have a 4" gun, but wouldn't the comp give you that much more control? I have also considered taking a 3" model and porting the barrel/slide for a sort of built in comp, any thoughts?

In addition to the other concerns already mentioned, assuming you were willing to live with all that - I wouldn't - you really don't get much effect from comping/porting a .45 auto. The .45 ACP is a low pressure cartridge, thus you don't have the huge volume of high pressure gas available that's necessary to operate a comp efficiently.Lots of negatives to this approach, really no positives.

[Iggy42]

From what I have been reading here some people have recoil issues with the 3" 1911 in 45ACP, what about putting a 1" comp on the front? Sure you effectively have a 4" gun, but wouldn't the comp give you that much more control? I have also considered taking a 3" model and porting the barrel/slide for a sort of built in comp, any thoughts?

In addition to the other concerns already mentioned, assuming you were willing to live with all that - I wouldn't - you really don't get much effect from comping/porting a .45 auto. The .45 ACP is a low pressure cartridge, thus you don't have the huge volume of high pressure gas available that's necessary to operate a comp efficiently.Lots of negatives to this approach, really no positives.

I figured there was a reason why I have never seen a comp on a defense gun, thanks for the insight

[ed_henry]

I guess I am stupid I have fired this TIKI and other comped guns from close retention and I have never been burned. This TIKI with the comp does not kick or bite as my colt New dective does.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Duane Thomas

[mgood]

Tried a lot of the small 1911s but, everytime it gives up one of the best features, the longer sight length. Great triggers also need good sights. And,- well with the reduction in fire power by 20-25% (mag cap).

THAT is why I added Crimson Trace Lasergrips to my little Kimber.

Although, as it turns out, the factory sights are surprisingly good at the medium ranges (15-40 or so yards) where I thought the laser would be necessary to overcome major short-sight-radius suckage.

And in the off chance I have to shoot . . . well, without getting into def . . . moving right along.

From what I have been reading here some people have recoil issues with the 3" 1911 in 45ACP, what about putting a 1" comp on the front? Sure you effectively have a 4" gun, but wouldn't the comp give you that much more control? I have also considered taking a 3" model and porting the barrel/slide for a sort of built in comp, any thoughts?

The only reason to have a 3" barrel is to make it somewhat more concealable than a 4" or 5" barrel. Getting a 3-incher and then adding something to it to make it longer would be less than ideal.

[RickB]

I carry a Detonics Combat Master almost every day. It gets shot in IDPA matches, three or four times a year (and BUG side stages a few more times). I'll agree with those who say staying on top of spring maintenance is vital to functional reliability. In my experience, the little guns recoil a lot, but there's not much muzzle flip. The extra-short sight radius of the Combat Master doesn't help long-range accuracy, but it's not a long-range gun. At conversational distances, the sight picture is very solid, as both sights are nearly in the same plane.

[Revopop]

I decided to go with a Colt CCO (officer's frame, commander slide) because of what I'd heard about reliability in the short guns, and because I got a good deal on it. The only thing I changed was slim Alumagrips instead of the godawful fingergrip Hogues that it came with. It was totally reliable with my reloads and with Winchester PDX & Hornady TAP. Just to see, I carried my fullsize Kimber, and found with the kind of loose shirts I wear, it wasn't really much harder to hide. I didn't like the extra weight, though. For me, I thought that a lightweight Commander was the way to go. So I went with a Kimber Pro Carry. I just made a deal on a Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator, though, so the Kimber's in the Classifieds. With the Springfield I can have all the benefits of the Pro, but also a rail for a Surefire light.

For me, something smaller than a lightweight commander isn't enough easier to hide that it's worth losing one round of capacity and rolling the dice on reliability. Anything bigger than a lightweight commander, and the weight becomes an issue for me.

It should be noted though, I'm 6 feet tall, 260lbs. with capacious love handles.

[ed_henry]

does anyone make any aluminum frame 5" gun?

[EkuJustice]

Kimber CDP,tactical etc are aluminum frame. Kimber does make a 4inch slide, officer length grip that is called the compact. I never had a problem with the barrel lenght being concealed. The 2 things that make a gun harder to conceal are width and grip length

[Gary1911A1]

does anyone make any aluminum frame 5" gun?

Springfield has in the past and currently makes an Operator Model with a light weight frame. S&W also has a version with a light weight frame.

[twodownzero]

I think Colt makes a lightweight government model. Kimber also has their Super Carry in full size, 4" bobtails, and 3" models.

[-JQ-]

Iggy42 - I just visited your town two weeks ago...very cool town...ate at the caboose.

I had a SA 3"...didn't mind the recoil as much as the brass ejecting into the middle of my forehead. I really like the size but didn't keep that one too long.

[ck1]

This is a fine article on the subject that explains it pretty well: http://grayguns.com/physics-and-short-45-caliber-pistols-a-discussion/

FWIW, before i knew any better, I once had a 3" Kimber Ultra Carry that was such a POS that it almost made me swear off 1911's forever...

Edited November 15, 2010 by ck1

[Duane Thomas]

That is a good article. Of course, I would expect no less from Bruce Gray.

[SantaFe]

I normally carry a Kimber 4" in .45 but thought I'd try the Kahr PM45 after I shot a friends PM9 and liked the trigger. The PM45 is totally dependable, not having failed once during break-in (200 rds) and thereafter. It was difficult finding a good holster for it though. Now that I have one, I'm carrying it. The trigger is so smooth. It's got travel but the smoothness helps you ignore that.

I will say this though, the 200rd break-in took the skin off my thumb knuckle and there doesn't seem to be a way to avoid that. It was very accurate right up to the point I started bleeding. I have no problem shooting a half box of ammo now and it digests everything I feed it.

I wanted to get experience with a DAO weapon as I also have a S&W M&P and that is a great pistol as well.

[Wild Gene]

What about the Sig Sauer P238? It is a 1911 style. It was basically the Colt Mustang "Pocket Lite", and Sig bought the rights and machinery to produce it.

It may only come in .380, I do not recall.

The STI Escort looks really cool, I would like to shoot one of the 9's.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Wild Gene

[twodownzero]

What about the Sig Sauer P238? It is a 1911 style. It was basically the Colt Mustang "Pocket Lite", and Sig bought the rights and machinery to produce it.

It may only come in .380, I do not recall.

The STI Escort looks really cool, I would like to shoot one of the 9's.

It comes in .380 only.

I put my 10-8 rear sight on the EMP. Now all it needs is some better grips and it'll be 100%.

It's a joy to shoot. Soft and pretty flat. It's basically like shooting my normal single stack. The softer recoil of 9mm makes it more like shooting a 1911.

Edited November 26, 2010 by twodownzero

[Duane Thomas]

The softer recoil of 9mm makes it more like shooting a 1911.

I'm not sure I understand that sentence. It is a 1911, right, albeit somewhat modified in design for a smaller grip. Do you mean that firing a 9mm this small is akin to firing a full-sized .45?

[twodownzero]

The softer recoil of 9mm makes it more like shooting a 1911.

I'm not sure I understand that sentence. It is a 1911, right, albeit somewhat modified in design for a smaller grip. Do you mean that firing a 9mm this small is akin to firing a full-sized .45?

I guess it's a "1911" if the term "1911" includes any 1911-like gun. It is, very much, a 1911, and that's perhaps a poor choice of words. It is, however, smaller, lighter, and has a different grip than most 1911s. It also has a different recoil system and a very different barrel than my other 1911-like guns.

What I meant is that the softer recoil from the 9mm/minor loads, shot in a 25 ounce gun that feels a lot like any other 1911 in your hand, makes the whole experience a lot like shooting a 5" major gun.

I'm not sure about the physics/momentum numbers, etc., the sights track just like the 5" gun I'm used to shooting with my typical 147 grain load that I use in my production gun.

I haven't chronoed anything so I'm not sure what kind of numbers we're looking at, but I'd imagine my typical 135 pf load (from a 5") is sub-minor from a 3".

[Jim Watson]

I have a Springfield Ultra Compact Lightweight 9mm, the gun they discontinued to make room for the EMP at a higher price. It required the usual treatment to convert the integral barrel ramp into a FEED ramp and installation of a steel firing pin to eliminate some really scary looking smeared primers, but it shoots quite well.

you really don't get much effect from comping/porting a .45 auto. The .45 ACP is a low pressure cartridge,

I guess I read this piece of Internet Wisdom every week, but I had a compensated OACP, a carry comp Commander, and an old style IPSC Modified gun that were very comfortable to shoot. I am not real sensitive to all the things I read about affecting recoil like those soft shooting brands of powder, but these comped .45s were quite mild. I removed compensators and traded guns when I got IDPA fever but now I wish I had kept a couple because they shot so well. Use of AA #2 really kept the flash down, too.

[The Happy Gila]

I have a Colt Officers ACP that I bought used then had John Harrison (www.harrisoncustom.com)go through for me. I use Wilson Combat 7 round mags in the gun and after 500 rounds so far, the gun has run flawlessly. I'm still getting used to the shorter grip on the OACP as I shot Government/ Combat Commander length's exclusively previously, but aside from getting adjusted to the shorter frame length, I'm very happy with the Officers model.

[Duane Thomas]

I guess I read this piece of Internet Wisdom every week

Wow, there must be a lot of people on the Internet discussing the compensated .45 1911. In this case it's not just Internet wisdom, I have actually fired a comped 1911 .45, and was amazed at how nice it was not. If anything, the comp gave the gun both (1) a lot more rearward push, (2) the delaying of the action unlocking, and the MUCH lighter recoil spring required to make the gun work, gave the slide cycling a disagreeable glunk-glunk, very slow, back-and-forth effect, and much more up-and-down front sight bounce.