Montana Gold 124JHP vs 124 CMJ

[DWFAN]

Just seeing if anyone has done any accuracy difference testing between the Montana Gold 124 JHP and the 124 CMJ. Thinking of switching from JHP to CMJ to gain a hint of reliability. I've had a few issues of nose diving with Zero and Remington JHP's that I dont have with FMJ or Lead flat points. The Montana Gold JHP's were 100% through 5K rounds, but that doesnt mean it will always be that way.

[JoshF]

I've seen two examples first hand of 124 CMJ's not grouping past 20yds using Titegroup. Both have since switched to JHP's with no issues.

[DWFAN]

So, 5-6 inches, or cant hit the broad side of a barn ?

[Duke Nukem]

124 MG cmjs will shoot clover leaf groups out of my Shadow Custom at 15 yds standing everytime if I do my part. I use N320 though.

Just seeing if anyone has done any accuracy difference testing between the Montana Gold 124 JHP and the 124 CMJ. Thinking of switching from JHP to CMJ to gain a hint of reliability. I've had a few issues of nose diving with Zero and Remington JHP's that I dont have with FMJ or Lead flat points. The Montana Gold JHP's were 100% through 5K rounds, but that doesnt mean it will always be that way.

[BMartens]

I ran 1000 of each, the MG 124 CMJ and JHP, trying to select a bullet for 9 major. The JHP was always more accurate with a good 1-1.5" smaller group at 25 yards. Also, this was through two different 5" guns.

I've not had any feeding problems with the JHP either, they run 100%.

Of course, after all of that work, I decided I like 115 bullets better... Running 115 JHP in Montana Gold and Zero with no problems at all.

[edwin garcia]

I did a 'limited' test in my open, both 124 CMJ and FMJ MG burning VV 3n38 will group sub 1 inch at 25 yards. PF ~172. I shot it benched.

Shot about 20 + rounds for each profile.

I prefer CMJ but if it runs out tomorrow, I'll use FMJ in a heartbeat.

Personally, at the distance we shoot, both profiles are optimal. Choose your own, make it run in your gun of choice, practice x infinity,

shoot matches and have fun!

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: The JHP are more accurate in my Glock 34, CZ Shadow and my Open 9mm. Not by much but they are for me. I also set the feed lips on the mags to 0.357" wide. You may also try the Montana Gold 121's as well. That is what I am shooting now in my Glock 34 and I use the 115 JHP in my open 9mm. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[DWFAN]

Thanks guys, I guess I'll try to find some and do some testing before getting a case. My outdoor load is a 147gr BBI and love it. Its just a little too smokey for the indoor dark IDPA stages. Maybe throw in the MG 147CMJ for testing as well.

Edited September 20, 2010 by DWFAN

[RH45]

I usually use Zero, 125 grain, .356, jhps in all my 9mms, and .38 supers. My standard, "minor" load is 4 grains of Titegroup, and my open guns will easily shoot that load under an inch at 25 yards, all day long. I picked up some cmj's, and loaded some to try, and out of my open gun at 25 yards, my groups opened up to about 3".

[JoshF]

So, 5-6 inches, or cant hit the broad side of a barn ?

Since you asked...

It was broad side of barn. This was out of a Glock 34 and a M&P 9L both with stock barrels. Load was 4.1gr Titegroup 1.135 oal. At 60 yards neither of us could hit a full sized popper and that has NEVER been a problem for either of us. Both of us changed to FMJ and accuracy is on par with what you'd expect. I thought it was interesting we both experienced the same problems even though we used the same charge/powder/bullet everything else was different. Never heard of a problem with JHPs.

[Darrell]

Here is some Montana gold data. I prefer the JHP's for production, and 121 IFP for my open gun. My open gun is loaded long 1.170 and uses IMR 7625 and I get 3/4" 5 shot groups out of the ransom rest in my STI Competitor. The below data is for production and single stack loadings.

[Jachin]

MG 124 CMJ's w/ 4.4gr. of W-231, oal of 1.140 and crimp of .378 repeatedly gave me a fourteen foot groups at 100 yards. THAT'S FOOT AS IN FEET.

MG 124 JHP's w/ 4.4gr. of W-231, oal of 1.140 and crimp of .378 repeatedly gave me an sixteen inch groups at 100 yards. Repeat inches.

I went all over the place with powder load, oal, and crimp to no avail.

I believe it has something to do with the little incert at the rear of the bullet.

I never noticed much difference at 10 or 15 yards but at 25 yards there was a difference.

I used up the 3750 CMJ's and have since purchased over 10,000 JHP's.

I still use the MG JHP's and think the Montana Gold people and products are great except for the 124 CMJ for accuracy.

Best regards,

[DWFAN]

Well I think I have enough info here to NOT order a full case without testing some first.

Thanks everyone.

[Sarge]

Well I think I have enough info here to NOT order a full case without testing some first.

Thanks everyone.

I know what you mean. I hate ordering anything less than a whole case of bullets. It just seems like you pay such a premium that way. I would order 1000 of each you want to test. I found I went through them pretty fast doing load development.

[edwin garcia]

MG 124 CMJ's w/ 4.4gr. of W-231, oal of 1.140 and crimp of .378 repeatedly gave me a fourteen foot groups at 100 yards. THAT'S FOOT AS IN FEET.

MG 124 JHP's w/ 4.4gr. of W-231, oal of 1.140 and crimp of .378 repeatedly gave me an sixteen inch groups at 100 yards. Repeat inches.

I went all over the place with powder load, oal, and crimp to no avail.

I believe it has something to do with the little incert at the rear of the bullet.

I never noticed much difference at 10 or 15 yards but at 25 yards there was a difference.

I used up the 3750 CMJ's and have since purchased over 10,000 JHP's.

I still use the MG JHP's and think the Montana Gold people and products are great except for the 124 CMJ for accuracy.

Best regards,

Interesting test. Just curious, what pistol did you use.

[larry cazes]

I have been using the 124 and 115 grain MG JHPs for years in various open guns with zero feed issues. The HP profile on these should not cause any feed issues. I did try a case of the 124 CMJs and the JHPs were quite a bit more accurate.

[DWFAN]

Just to add, this is not for Open. Im shooting ESP and Single stack with a 9mm 1911 and has had a few issues with nose diving. My production gun runs the JHP just fine.

[BigTinVA]

I have had excellent results with the MG 124gr CMJ's out of my 9mm Major Open gun with a KKM barrel. However, I have not tried their 124gr JHP's, I have just not had a reason to change from the CMJ's yet.

[Jachin]

MG 124 CMJ's w/ 4.4gr. of W-231, oal of 1.140 and crimp of .378 repeatedly gave me a fourteen foot groups at 100 yards. THAT'S FOOT AS IN FEET.

MG 124 JHP's w/ 4.4gr. of W-231, oal of 1.140 and crimp of .378 repeatedly gave me an sixteen inch groups at 100 yards. Repeat inches.

I went all over the place with powder load, oal, and crimp to no avail.

I believe it has something to do with the little incert at the rear of the bullet.

I never noticed much difference at 10 or 15 yards but at 25 yards there was a difference.

I used up the 3750 CMJ's and have since purchased over 10,000 JHP's.

I still use the MG JHP's and think the Montana Gold people and products are great except for the 124 CMJ for accuracy.

Best regards,

Interesting test. Just curious, what pistol did you use.

XD9 Service and an XDm-9

[photoracer]

One of my fellow members was just at the range with me testing some 115 BB and 124 MG through both his Glock and his M&P 9L. The Glock shot both reasonably well at 25 yards. The M&P was a different story entirely. It grouped the 115 BB better than the Glock but the 124 MG were all over the place. He uses a very light load of 3.7g of Titegroup as a steel load.

[Maksim]

Just ordered a case of 124gr JHP as per suggestions from here over cmj. Will test and play around with them.

[boz1911]

I recently switched to the 124JHP's in my open blaster. I was looking for a little more accuracy. In our world both bullets appear to perform adequately. I did not notice a significant change in accuracy, although I don't do a lot of shooting off a rest.

[mpeltier]

I tried both and at first found an accuracy problem with the CMJ. But it was not actualy a problem with the bullets, but a die adjustment. I incorectly assumed that a slight tweek to the bullet seating depth was all I needed, but when going from the HP to the cmj I needed to flare a tiny bit more and crimp a tiny bit less than the HP and viola...back to great accuracy. I am not sure what it is about the construction of the cmj that caused this but there was a huge differance, with a minor die adjustment. All loads were from the same box/lot of each.

[njl]

After reading this thread, I decided to do some informal testing today. I shot using my normal 2 handed grip and my old G17 (this was just about the last of the 2-pin Gen3 G17's) at 13yds.

I tested MG 124gr CMJ and JHP, PD 124gr FMJ, and Blazer (aluminum) 115gr. The MG CMJ were definitely the smallest group, followed by the PD and Blazer. The MG JHP's did the worst. I reshot several MG JHP targets just to make sure it wasn't all me. These were all loaded in Win [used] brass, CCI SP primers, 4.3gr Universal.

Perhaps as mpeltier found, there's something more I need to adjust. All I've done in moving from one bullet to the other is adjust the seating die height.

Given what I saw from today's targets, I don't think I'll bother with MG 124gr JHP again. I may even see if I can locally sell them or trade them for CMJ. I've probably got close to 3000 of them left.