How small is your group before it's good enough

[BigGabe]

Was wondering how tight does your groups have to be when working up a new load before you will use it in competition. Right now I'm shooting right at 3 inch 10 shot groups at 25 yards off the bench. The open sights are rough on these old eyes though. I might do better if I had a dot sight on it, but I was wanting to shoot limited. Do you think I ought to move up to see if I could get some tighter groups? If this has been asked before(and it probably has I apologize). Gabe

[tk4]

I would be more comfortable if they were closer to 2.5.

[Jaxshooter]

Have you had anyone else shoot the gun to see if it is your vision or the gun? I don't know what sights you have but if you find it is your vision that is the problem maybe you can find a set of sights that will work better for you.

[Flexmoney]

Get to a match. Have fun now. There is plenty of stuff going on beyond pure accuracy.

Shoot that tool !

[lugnut]

I can't remember the last time I shot off a bench. 3" at 25 yds... I'd be fine with that.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I like to stand and shoot at 20 or 25 yards, with a normal 2 handed hold, at the head of an IDPA/USPSA target. If all the shots hit the head then I'm good with that. That's all the accuracy you'll need for a match.

[G-ManBart]

Sure, I like a gun/load that can shoot 1-1.5" at 25yds, but I wouldn't skip a match, or feel terribly handicapped with a gun/load that would only do 3" at 25yds. I wouldn't be thrilled if we had 50yd standards, but I'd manage. R,

[Jman]

Your gun is plenty accurate out of the box. See what you can do with it in some matches.

[calishootr]

3 inches at 25 yards??? there is a whole line of people outthere shootin this sport with groups bigger than that, and having fun doin it, go out and shoot some matches with it and see if it is what you need, some clubs will shoot full open targets under 15 yrds all match long(thats a 9x12 inch A zone to work with) others that have demented MD's will put lots of hard cover and no-shoots all over the place,rule of thumb(pardon the pun) if you can cover your group with your hand(3x5 inches) you can hit any target on the range

[blaster113]

3" at 25 yds should be good enough; shoot safe and have fun.

[Torogi]

its funny i have been shooting for a year and i never measure my groups. there is always this flyer that comes up if i decide to measure it

i always think that my gun will fire wherever i point it at. if its not there 1st to blame is me, second is my ammo (since i roll my own too).

i read from BEnos book about bench shooting that it actually helps you tune yourself with the gun. i have to re-read that again.

but to answer your question, ideally, all holes should be in that X or orange ring

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm shooting right at 3 inch 10 shot groups at 25 yards I was wanting to shoot limited. Do you think I ought to move up to see if I could get some tighter groups? Gabe

Gabe, I'd be happy to start with 3" groups - start shooting

competitively, and when you have time, work on more accurate

loads - you don't mention what gun you have, or caliber, or

what type ammo - but I found that my gun shoots better with

a particular weight of bullet (147 gr's vs. 115's or 125's).

And, different OAL's ;different powders, etc can make a difference.

Same with different brands of bullets.

Get shooting, and work on different loads as you get the time.

But, as most people here agree - 3" for a 10-shot group at

25 yards is plenty good for IPSC.

[Pezco]

As long as your bullets aren't key-holing you should be good-2-go!

[MarkCO]

Yep, 3" is good enough. In some cases you might find a slightly better or slightly worse group shooting off-hand. Having the gun's 3" group hitting your point of aim is MUCH more important.

Accuracy, to some people, becomes a mental thing where you shoot faster and better with a gun you "think" is more accurate. So while 3" is fine, if it bugs you, work on your load some. To some degree, what gun you are shooting and how it is fit (if fitting is even possible) may dictate that 3" is as good as you are going to get. I've shot a few auto-loading pistols at 1" most in the 2-3" range and some in the 4-5" range and been satisified with the various levels of precision. When a pistol opens up over 5" at 25 yards, something is usually amiss.

[Biloxi23]

Most of the "less than 3 inch groups" I ever shot were with a .308 with a Nikon Tactical 2.5-10 power scope. I am not near as good as most of the people on this site, but it seems to me that the ability to shoot small groups, off the bench with a handgun only proves how accurate the pistol is rather than how well you can shoot it. I am an unltra competetive typer person and never thought I would have so much fun getting smoked at matches. What more could you ask for? Your in the fresh air, good peopkle around you and you shooting firearms. As the man once said, "It don't get no better than that." Start shooting matches. There is no substitute. Better shooters than me from this site recommend that you "pick one gun and shoot the snot out of it."

[Team Amish 1]

I'd think, 3" would be fine.

How's your group unsupported?

[broadus123]

The size of your group should be fine at that distance try some head shots at @ 15 yards and weak hand/strong hand shots knowing where your gun shoots is very important

[AzShooter]

Three inches is good enough to be competitive but I'd like a tighter shooting gun. \

Start shooting matches and then experiment with different bullets and loads.

Are you shooting factory ammo? If so pick up a couple of different brands you should easily find something that will shoot 2 inches at 25 yards off a bench.

If you are using reloads change your powder amount or your OAL and go for a tighter group.

You don't need tight groups to shoot USPSA targets but it helps to have the best shooting gun you can.

Off hand, if you are keeping you shots in the A - C zone you are doing ok. The rest will come with match experience and practice.

[walsh]

I can't remember the last time I shot off a bench. 3" at 25 yds... I'd be fine with that.

[For those who remember Dana Carvey on SNL]

I lived in NYC until I was 30....we didn't have no guns and we didn't have no benches......AND WE LIKED IT!

Then I moved over the bridge to New Germany for 20 years and we were allowed to have guns.....but when you went to get your NJ Firearms ID Card the officer fingerprinting you casually grilled you as to why you wanted a gun, and then why I was buying another when I had four, and the range was an hour away and you couldn't shoot anybody in self-defense without asking their permission (almost)...AND WE DIDN'T LIKE IT.

I was stopped randomly (every 10th car I think) coming home from dinner with my in-laws and at a DUI check I didn't know that for months I had placed 50 rds of 9mm JHP prominently stuffed to see, for someone looking from behind you, in the carrier part behind my seat. And if my father in-law wasn't an NYPD First Grade Detective who showed his gold badge and I didn't profusely apologize to the really upset storm trooper who lectured me as to kids getting a hold of that ammo (????) I think he'd have arrested me for a FELONY and I'd have lost my gun rights as you can't even have a round of ammo not GOING DIRECTLY to/from a range...AND WE DIDN'T LIKE IT!

Then we wanted to be free and we moved to NC seven years ago and WE GOT BENCHES and now a Marvel .22 conversion kit that just arrived for my Kimber with a white button and 5 rounds showing it shoots, at 50 yds, .974"....AND WE LOVE IT.

3" group sounds great to me. But I'm getting mild cataracts removed and instead of LASIK I'm 55 and having Inter Ocular Lenses (IOL)put behind my cornea....AND I THINK I'LL LOVE IT!....and probably have a better grouping than 3"....I hope.

Good luck,

Walsh

[Cold Absolute Zero]

I think 3 in groups are fine for our game, for bullseye...eh maybe a little tighter

[tunakilla]

One of the Nations Top Shooters made it to GM with an open gun that would have shots missing from the body of a metric target at 25 yards.

Go shoot, you will have a bunch of fun.

[Bear23]

If i can hit the A-Zone head shot at 20 yards and get around 2" i'm good to go. I'd expect tighter groups off of a bench, but if your eyes are only so good just shoot it.

[BigGabe]

Well just came back in from the back yard. I'll do some more practicing the next couple of days before my first match on Saturday though. I've run a couple hundred rounds through the gun with 4 different magazines and it hasn't missed a beat yet. Shot paper plates at 15 yards freehand and was able to put all 75 rounds on them so I guess that isn't too bad for not having shot a pistol for the last 10 years or so. I'm hoping with some practice practice and more practice I can become a little better at drawing the gun and mag changes. Thanks to all of you that responded. I think the gun is capable of tighter groups and one day I might be able to prove it if I shoot the open class with dot sights.Gabe