Are You In The Right Class?

[Jeeper]

Everyone of us knows people who really arent in the right class. Some are higher than they should be. Some are definite sandbaggers(Mink last year comes to mind - ) Where do you think you really fall? I guess the other question is: What percentage of people in the next higher class should someone be able to beat before they know they are too low and visa-versa?

[Flexmoney]

A lot of it has nothing to do with sand/grand-bagging. It is just the nature of the system.

[Loves2Shoot]

I think a lot of it depends on how many classifiers you shoot, I only get to shoot about 8-12 per year per gun, so moving in classes is a long process.

[Chriss Grube]

There are several problems, classifiers do not accurately predict match performance, the system is slower than the DMV line, and you have people that shoot the same classifier over and over and there are probably some that just plain cheat or tank the classifier. In this modern age of computer tech. how hard would it be to have the classes updated in real time? The MD can put the scores in but then they sit there for up to a month before anything changes. The biggest misconception is that grand bagging doesn't effect anyone but the shooter. How about the guy that goes out and shoots the classifier once for score and earns his classification that way. This shooter goes to a big match and kicks the crap out of the grandbaggers who are 2 classes ahead. Now the guy that shoots it properly is a "sandbagger" because he crushed a bunch of guys that don't deserve their classification.

[jhgtyre]

Good point about the Grandbaggers Chriss. I know a couple of guys who sandbag and that is, for all the obvious reasons, pretty low. I hadn't thought about the other guys as hurting the system. I really wish we could have a system where ONLY match performance affected your classification. I know, there are roadblocks there too.

-ld

[John Dunn]

For me the classification system seems to be spot on. When I was a B shooter at 60.x% I shot Area 1 and came in at 58%. Then I practiced some, got some awesome coaching (thanks Sam!), and made A class limited at 75.x% Then shot the Infinity Open at 74%.

I've shot a couple Master level classifier stages, but I don't think I'm at that level yet. In L-10 I'm at 74.x%, and I suppose the sandbagger thing to do would be to shoot the next big match in B L-10. But I won't.

[TriggerT]

Depends a lot on which division we are talking about. In L-10 I am less than a point away from breaking into A class. In all other divisions I am somewhere in the C class. I will be shooting my limited gun in a club level match in a few weeks, and I will be the first to admit that I will be sandbagging. On the other hand, unless I really bomb the classifier at the match, I should then get bumped into B class for limited. Most people I think are either in the correct class, or are close enough that all they need is one or two more good classifiers to post to get them to where they should be.

[Bubber]

I had received an 87 percentile in 1995 which they are still using in my classification and they throw out all that fall below an A class score and now I can "occassionaly" gust to a 70-75 percentile depending on the classifier shot. They will use the 70 and above that keeps me in A class. Not that it matters much to me I sort of just shoot heads up anyway. I shoot an eight shot dot revo in Open so that doesn't help much either.

[ErikW]

Hey, I've got four classifications, so the question isn't so simple. I voted, "I should be higher" because of my L10 classification. There's no good reason it shouldn't be exactly what my Limited classification is.

[cpty1]

Oh yeah! Pet peeve. What Erik said. This has been brought up and discussed before and I know there's a differing school of thought, but I'm gonna say it again......I believe your highest class in any division should be your class in every division. (Soap box now stored safely away).

[BismarckC]

I agree with Flex. To an extent it is the nature of the system. In my limited experience and time in this sport I have not seen any classifiers with windmills, texas stars, or the other interestingly challenging targets. Yet, you see these types of props in matches. We have a member at my club that can shoot most classifiers fairly well but has a prosthetic leg so once you get to stages with a lot of movement his scores might not reflect his classification.

[Merlin Orr]

  I have not seen any classifiers with windmills, texas stars, or the other interestingly challenging targets.  Yet, you see these types of props in matches. 

I would think that there are sizable numbers of people with no or extremely limited access to this type of target. If you have a chance to practice or shoot this kind of target in local matches I think it would give you a huge advantage that would not be "fair" in a classifier.

[Loves2Shoot]

Hey, I've got four classifications, so the question isn't so simple. I voted, "I should be higher" because of my L10 classification. There's no good reason it shouldn't be exactly what my Limited classification is.

Or the other way around too. My L10 is higher than my L, but they should be the same.

[Gwhiz]

Matches should count 2 to 3 times as much as club classifiers. Your class should reflect what you can do at a match, not at home. This would also catch up with sandbaggers quicker.

[MVZ]

I voted that I should be higher as I constantly shoot field courses much better than the typical speed shoot classifier.

I've been told by some of our GM & M class shooters that I am trying to hard to move up and as a result I am not shooting the classifiers as fluidly as the field courses.

Trying to relax and just let it happen is HARD

MVZ

[mpolans]

I've had times when I should have been higher but wasn't due to the nature of the classification system. We had a limited number of classifiers when I was shooting overseas. When I went to the Nationals, I was a few percentage points above the cut off for my class...interestingly, I did not win my class; someone else beat me by a significant margin.

The delay in shooting the required number of classifiers and the processing time mean that you can improve faster than your classification reflects if you don't have much opportunity to shoot them.

I also think another flaw is that most classifiers require very little movement. A VERY fast, but "larger" shooter told me that, while he's Master class while stationary, he probably loses a class for every 5-10 steps he has to take.

[Ron Ankeny]

I feel like I am classed about right in three divisions and too high in the other two divisions. It's really a tough call to assess myself. I have evolved into a pretty decent "stand and shoot" gunslinger. I do well on speedshoots and classifiers, but I suck at field courses that have awkward positions and a lot of running.

If you really want to know if you are classed right, ask the guys you shoot with. Sam told me I "shoot like a Master" and another Master told me my revolver shooting is "very impressive". However, I still suck with an Open blaster, ask Titandriver about that, lol.

Even though I have only been shooting IPSC for 3 years, I have learned that there is nothing that brings out the worst in people faster than discussions about grandbagging and sandbagging. I think people in general spend too much time worrying about what other shooters are doing. As a very low level M shooter, my classification shouldn't be of any concern to anyone. Either you can kick my butt or you can't, and what is printed on my USPSA card is not as significant as what is written on the score sheet at the end of the day. When I lose to an A or B class shooter, it isn't because I am a grandbagger or he/she is a sandbagger. It's because they shot better. Actually, it's probably because I am a middle aged fat guy and they are in shape.

[TheOtherErik]

For the most part I feel I'm in the right class in the . My percentage decient representation of my shooting abilitys. I do however do better on speed shoots. Most major matches I shoot my percentage.

[kevin c]

Starting out, I moved up by shooting into the next class at the Golden Gate Match. Back then, I actually practiced, and outstripped my submitted scores regularly,

I've been stalled in B class for years now, but it's strictly related to not having put in the extra effort to improve my skills. I occasionally get kidded about sandbagging classifiers, but they actually do reflect my match performances (occasional fits of brilliance buried in a miasma of inconsistency )

[BismarckC]

(MerlinD Posted on Jan 27 2004, 01:49 PM)

I would think that there are sizable numbers of people with no or extremely limited access to this type of target. If you have a chance to practice or shoot this kind of target in local matches I think it would give you a huge advantage that would not be "fair" in a classifier.

My point exactly. There are different COF for classifier versus field courses. So how do you judge?

[AikiDale]

If you look at the results of the National Matches it seems the GM's are at the top, followed by M, A, B,C, D pretty much right down the line. There are a few exceptions of course, but an outside observer looking at the results would think the classification system seems to work pretty well.

[kimel]

I am a "C" class in L-10 and Limited but pretty close to "B" in Limited. If I could ever get over "classifieritis" I would zip right into "B".

I haven't been shooting L-10 much of late so that is probably why that percentage is lagging.

Based on a percentage basis I think I am about right.

Letter grades make it tough because they are broad characterizations of overall performance. I suppose we could go to the +/- system which would dump me in B- or C+ depending on how you broke it out.

[eric nielsen]

It's kind of easy to get classed ahead or behind your current ability, but after 8 or 9 classifiers in the same division, you're likely to be where you belong.

Bet we all have a phase where they're struggling to move up in class, or perform to the class we're in. What all our stories would have in common is that we know what we're doing wrong as we're doing it.

[tyro]

I voted that I should be higher as I constantly shoot field courses much better than the typical speed shoot classifier.

I've been told by some of our GM & M class shooters that I am trying to hard to move up and  as a result  I am not shooting the classifiers as fluidly as the field courses.

Trying to relax and just let it happen is HARD

MVZ

MVZ took the words right off my keyboard.

[kindlyoldcoach]

I'm a "D" in Standard.

Last match I shot, the range officer gave the LAMR command, noticed it was me on the line, clipped his CED 6000 back on his belt and dragged out an old Heuer stopwatch.

I think I should be back in "U".